Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Haval_Runa, Apr 10, 2006.
I don't think anyone was implying otherwise.
You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Terri really didn't imply that Ireland was a part of the UK, or that Dublin was in England, or anything of the sort. Just that while stopping off in one, it'd be rather simple to visit the other. Nothing to start acting the maggot over.
she was talking about KRAD being allowed into the UK, she previously mentioned visting Dublin. maybe it's just me, but it seemed like she was implying Dublin's in the UK.
it'd be like saying, i'm visting Toronto, but I had trouble with US immigration in the past.
It's NOT that easy to get too.
Thats the impression I got as well. Which is why I used the Cuba/America comparison - Originally I was going to use Florida, but that's a state and not a country.
Can we limit discussion in the casting thread to casting suggestions, please? The thread is huge enough without off-topic digressions.
Speaking as someone who's lived in both Ireland and the UK, and has often visited both as a US citizen and resident, it's far from difficult. If one is traveling from the US to the UK, adding a stop in Dublin is no great problem, as long as one has the extra time involved. Going the other way, it would be about as difficult simpler than visiting Washington, DC and adding a stop in New York or Cincinatti. Not directly on the way, but when talking transatlantic distances, it's certainly in the neighborhood.
Woohoo! I could be there for that since I missed your last visit to Dublin and ended up buying a pre-signed book by KRAD a few weeks after your visit.
Can I just say as an Irish person, living in the North, therefore technically a UK citizen (but with Irish nationality), that I thought Terri's comment made perfect sense. I mean, I get mad when people confuse Irish and British (frequently seems to happen in threads about casting James Bond, for some reason ...) but if someone has travelled across the Atlantic, to me it's a no-brainer to try to squeeze in a visit to the closest landmass and a logical thing to mention Ireland when talking about travelling from the USA to the UK.
And God knows, we could do with some sort of sci-fi convention or book event on this side of the Irish Sea. So I hope your plans come to fruition Terri.
Maybe this has something to do with Pierce Brosnan's being Irish?
Anyway, to sum up, the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom are not the same, we all know they're not the same, and no one's saying they're the same. Now, let's get back to Trekish casting.
Who should play Arafel Pagro from A Time for War, A Time for Peace?
Are persons from the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight, the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, the Shetland Islands, the Scilly Isles, or the Channel Islands considered British? The archipelago is known as the British Isles, but, for some reason, the term British seem to only apply to persons from the largest island in the group. Is this merely the strangeness of Irish nationalism damaging the rationality of the lexicon?
I doubt that many Manx folks consider themselves really British. Orkney and Shetland are populated primarily by Scots. Those on the Scilly Isles are mostly of Cornish descent - though Cornwall has long since been absorbed, some would say subsumed, by England. The Channel Islands are an interesting case, as they are self-governing British Crown Dependencies, not part of the United Kingdom proper. The British label would probably apply more to them than the others, however.
In general terms, "British" in its modern context is generally applied to the English, Welsh and Cornish peoples. The Scots and the Irish tend to disdain the term, with varying degrees of vehemence. Culturally, Ireland and England have always had separate identities, even in the North, and Scotland shares more with her cousins across the Irish Sea than she does her southern neighbors.
I am perpetually perplexed by how so few people in so small small a space of land can make so much of such small differences, and get along with such disdain and dislike for persons who are basically the same.
Well, this certainly isn't the thread to get into that discussion. It's long and sordid, but it boils down to this: when one people group forcibly, violently takes advantage of another, though the violence may end, the resentment will linger for generation upon generation.
^ The English-Irish antipathy (nevermind the other subgroups of the isles) predates the most recent period of one island's domination (and suppression) of the other. But, yes, I meant to express an observation about humanity, not the people of particular islands (ergo my comment was phrased generally).
Actually, the term 'British Isles' isn't popularlarly or commonly used in Ireland, nor does it make any geographical sense. Nothing to do with the 'strangeness' of Irish nationalism, it's a simple fact that Ireland isn't British. Even Northern Ireland, while part of the UK, isn't part of Great Britain - the United Kingdom is of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ergo, even NI isn't technically British, even if most of its citizens choose to have British nationality (which they're perfectly entitled to do, AFAIC).
And as has been pointed out elsewhere, many people in Scotland, Wales and the Isle of Man don't regard themselves as British. But I really don't want to hijack the thread any further. Suffice it to say, that while regarding myself as Irish, I have no disdain or dislike for English, Scottish, or Welsh people or for Northern Unionists. Generalisations such as the ones you've made aren't helpful.
Yeah, what he said. :-)
My father was a first-generation Irish-American Catholic, and my mother was an Irish protestant. I was born in Belfast, was raised in the US, Northern Ireland, and the Republic, and later spent a couple years living in London, Manchester and Dumbarton. I hold US, Irish and UK passports (though the latter rarely sees use). You'd be hard pressed to find a "label" for me in all that (though it's definitely not British, heh). One of the good things about being American - it covers a lot of ground.
...and now back to your regularly scheduled casting thread...
I count myself as European
Um yeah, casting for characters in the books!!!
How about Stephen Fry for the voice of Dr Ree, also, I know, a bit of British bias here, how about Ray Winston (with an American accent) for Antin "Grim" Vargo from Before Dishnour sound?
^I absolutely love Stephen Fry, so no complaints here. Jeeves & Wooster was a favourite program when I was young. Not quite sure who I hear for Ree, though.
I hear him in an upper class English accent, can go between Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie and occasionally Anthony Head!
All islands of the archipelago are British by technicality. Britain was not until recently a short form of Great Britain, but the collective name of the islands. They were originally (so far as known) named this (Brettaniai) by the Greek traveler Pythieas in 320 BCE, and the name carried forward through Roman times (Brittannia, later Britannia), and through several variants in French and English until its present (rather Latinesque) form. The name is believed to originate with a Celtic word something along the lines of Pretani (the indigenous Celts name for the people of the British Isles).
The tradition of naming the island containing England, Scotland, and Wales Great Britain is relatively recent, and itself only denotes that the island is the largest of the island group. The ancient (as far back as Roman times) names of the major islands were Albion (Great Britain) and Hibernia (Ireland).
The two statements weren't directly connected. My comment regarding Irish nationalism related just to the words, and my observation on human conflict was inspired by another poster's mention of the emnity between some of the peoples of the two islands (but, again, wasn't specifically about the situation in the British Isles).
Separate names with a comma.