Captain Solok

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Sadara, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Sadara

    Sadara Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Location:
    New Mexico
    It did in the sense that it was a hologram of Tuvok's wife which enabled him to eliminate any sense of infidelity on his part and then his bond with her helped some I'd imagine. For an unbonded Vulcan I'm not sure if it would work. That said, I'm sure there are few unbonded Vulcans at Chu'lak's age.
     
  2. The Librarian

    The Librarian Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2002
    From what we've seen of the Federation penal system, there's no reason to believe they wouldn't let him go home for that sort of thing, probably with the 24th-century equivalent of an ankle bracelet. In fact, he may well have been treated for his mental problems by that time and been released. According to TOS, they've gotten pretty good at rehabilitation because most crime is a result of either psychological problems or social circumstances like poverty, aside from a few crimes of passion (or ideological ones like the Maquis).
     
  3. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    I guess logic is subjective. If Solok were logical, he would not have even joined Starfleet and mix with inferior non-Vulcans, and would campaign for a Vulcan independence movement and secession from the Federation lol..

    Even still, it figures that some aliens would hold prejudices. I think Vulcans in honesty are an arrogant people. Yes they are cerebral and physically strong, but this leads conceit IMO.
     
  4. CrazyMatt

    CrazyMatt Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Location:
    Trying to focus....
    The character of Solok was written to make him unlikeable to the audience, thereby giving us a sense of satisfaction when he "loses" to Sisko. It would be hard to write an unlikeable character without emotion as it would make the "dislikeable" connection to the audience less likely.
     
  5. Red_Panda

    Red_Panda Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2013
    It is quite uncertain what Solok's true motives were. However, I'm not sure he 'bullied' anyone any more than humans can 'bully' Vulcans. There are instances were humans on Earth (ENT for example), who pick fights with Vulcans (or other aliens by calling the Vulcan) with broad generalizations about the Vulcans---they're emotionless arrogant pigheads etc---Not all true, but a reaction to previous encounters and thus act towards other aliens with the backlash of their bad experiences. I think it is possible that Solok had been previously hurt by a human and/or had a very bad experience. Obviously not by Sisko, but Sisko may be taking the backlash from bad experiences Solok might have had earlier on. I'm not excusing Solok for his behavior, but this is the best idea I can come up with for what spurred his behavior. (Recall how he said "human game of taunting" when he was in fact around other non-humans; he has a specific sensitivity to humans)
     
  6. TpelKestra

    TpelKestra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    I know there is a huge chunk of this that I still have yet to read, and posting this could make a mute point, but I am doing it anyway.

    You also have to keep in mind that Solok won the Christopher Pike medal for Valor TWICE. He didn't get them by being a dick to other ships and in all honesty, I couldn't see him ignoring a distress call.

    Further more, This was in the middle of the Dominion War and the T'Kumbra had been out fighting on the front lines for 6 months. That is a long time Especially considering the casualties acquired during this time.

    That alone would tax any Vulcan and their control as Vulcans are pacifists. He was doing his duty as a Star Fleet Captain but I am sure the Vulcan part of him would have struggled with all the violence and loosened his control.

    When he arrived on DS9, it didn't appear right off the bat what his intentions were. Not until Sisko, being under the impression that Solok was there to start a fight, was rude to him. So yeah...I battle hardened Vulcan who really just wants a break, is getting attitude from his old rival. Challenge him to a baseball game.

    Something Solok obviously knew was Sisko's thing. Something that he had his own crew playing. I have my thoughts on that as well, but I digress.

    Solok was an ass, but no one is perfect. And when you get chewed up and spit out from a long and grueling war, Vulcan or not, you are a little on edge.

    Keep in mind that Sisko was also not the only Captain posting weekly casualty reports. So was Solok. Solok likely wanted to end it all just as badly as Sisko did. However...he could also harbor some resentment toward Sisko, believing that Sisko was the reason for the war. That he could have handled it better but didn't.

    Ok...Taking a breather.
     
  7. Sadara

    Sadara Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Location:
    New Mexico
    It was Vorik that it didn't work on; likely because he had no mental bond with the hologram. Tuvok was better able to convince himself it would work since a) he had a mental bond to his wife and b) the hologram was of his wife. Vorik had neither of those.
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    I am aware of that. But we have no idea what he actually did to earn those medals. Perhaps he saved Vulcan itself? Twice? ;)

    Indeed, perhaps the T'Kumbra was part of a fleet protecting Vulcan, or at least stationed near there. I find this very likely, actually. It would let Solok and his crew keep close to home and not have to do anything for anyone who isn't Vulcan (except for the other ships in the fleet, although those could also be all-Vulcan-crewed).

    As for Solok being shell-shocked from the war? Again: He's a Vulcan, he's supposed to control his emotions. Let him quit if it gets to be too much for him. I should think that a Vulcan, of all people, would see the "logic" in stepping aside when you can't do your job.
     
  9. TpelKestra

    TpelKestra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Ok, caught up.

    I agree with Sadara on Vorik. The Vulcan mind is a fascinating thing. lol

    But to continue on my point...

    Most of this is just theories I have come up with to logically explain Solok's and Sisko's relationship. (As I have taken to writing fan fiction of Solok and his crew)

    They went to the Academy together and knew each other. I hardly think all of this was started in the bar with the first initial conflict.

    However, you have Sisko who is charasmatic and an over all likeable guy. Very popular I would imagine.

    Then you have Solok who is better then Sisko in pretty much every other way aside from his personality.

    I would put money on the fact that Solok was envious of Sisko, and the only relief he got, was from being able to piss Sisko off. Getting Sisko to show a less likeable side of himself that people shy away from. As his crew did when he booted Rom off the team.

    That being said, I can see Solok in a way looking up to Sisko. And once they had their wrestling match, Solok thought that they had created a competitive relationship. (This is was also referred to earlier) Solok didn't take it as seriously as Sisko did. Sisko saw it as a personal attack on himself. Solok likely saw it as just another game.

    And I hardly think that Solok began playing baseball just to piss Sisko off. I am sure that many times during the war Solok was made aware of what Sisko was doing. He likely would be keeping close tabs on the news of him.

    Dealing with issues on his own ship, mainly a crew of Vulcans that are out fighting, in keeping order and some balance aboard his own ship. Baseball is a game for teams. What better way to get your crews mind off of battle after battle and the loss of comrades then to have them play a game where they have to act as a team? A game that has nothing to do with War?

    So keeping tabs on Sisko, knowing he is a baseball fan, takes it as a good idea and starts his own crew on it.

    So what is to say Solok wouldn't be highly fascinated to play against his rival. The man he got the idea from to begin with. Surely he has his crew doing the same.

    Get to DS9, find out that Sisko is still bitter. Finds the notion absolutely illogical on Sisko's part, but continues with plans of challenging him anyway. He won't refuse considering he is still emotionally affected by Solok.

    If Solok really wanted to be a hateful prick, he could have simply told Sisko that with his emotional instability, that he is surprised he made it thus far. However he made no such comment.
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Solok is a Vulcan. He's not supposed to be envious. Envy is one of the basest, nastiest human emotions ever. Hardly becoming a Vulcan. Vulcans place no value in being charming or likeable, so even if Sisko had the advantage in that area (and I agree, he does), Solok should not care.
     
  11. TpelKestra

    TpelKestra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    If I remember correctly, the front lines are no where near Vulcan. The closest they got into the Core of the Federation was Betazed. Now, I may need to look at a map, but I am pretty sure DS9 was also QUITE a ways away from the Federation core as well.

    And I never said shell-shocked. Strained would be more proper, and ways to deal with that have been mentioned in my post above dealing with the whole point of the episode. The baseball game.

    Solok also shows signs of pride, which is not out rightly shunned in Vulcan society. In fact they say, Take credit where credit is due. If he felt he was dangerously compramised I am sure he may have stepped down, or he has a cheif medical officer who would make the call for him. Top efficiency is Solok's goal for the running of his ship. He would not tolerate anything less.

    I also do not believe he hates all humans. He just knows that is the quickest way to get under Sisko's skin. Which it is very effective. His focus was Sisko. No one else.
     
  12. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Vulcans act like they aren't supposed to be envious, scared, angry, etc., but we know it's just an act. Haven't we heard from multiple characters that they do in fact experience emotions, and just strive to control them? With that in mind, there's no reason Solok can't be envious.
     
  13. TpelKestra

    TpelKestra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    I agree with LobsterAfternoon. There is no reason to believe that Solok wasn't a little envious of Sisko. Solok obviously strived for perfection, and lacking in social skills that are equal to that of Sisko's, he would find fault with in himself and try to understand it. There is emotional suppression and there is emotional understanding. Vulcan's believe many different things. No all of them walk the same path. Where as some think total suppression is the way to go, there are others who aim to Understand their emotions and gain control over them that way.

    Considering Solok is a Starfleet Captain, he likely believes the latter. The fact that he has issues likely has not escaped his notice, however he isn't about to admit to them. Rather he will handle them privately on his own time or through trying new means of control. He perhaps messed up and got a little carried away with himself. He is not perfect. Continueing the delusion of thinking he is would be highly illogical. So..."I'm a dick. I like to tease people because it brings me amusement. In War Time, amusement is far better then the constant grief that I am able to sense from my old acquaintance, Sisko. We both need a break from this."

    His sense of envy was no where near over played either. I am basing this on purely a psychological stand point. And seeing as how Solok was admittedly a student of the psyche as well, (Sisko pointed out his papers) all of this could have been a mass study of the Jock Mind. What drives competition? Why the animosity between teams? So on and so forth. And seeing as how Sisko was Solok's only example (Or likely that is simply how Sisko saw it), he got all butt hurt.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    We also have seen other examples of Vulcans being openly racist. The Science Council chairman in STXI, for example. Indeed, the most dangerous racist beliefs are those which are arrived at 'logically,' aren't they?
     
  15. TpelKestra

    TpelKestra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    You can apply Logic to just about anything. However Solok is hardly dangerous.