Captain Solok

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Sadara, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. Sadara

    Sadara Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    So I was watching Take Me Out to the Holosuite the other day and I'm curious what other fans think of Captain Solok.

    He kind of baffles me. He is less than fond of more "emotionally handicapped species" (to the point where he behaves much like a bully) and yet he chose to leave Vulcan and venture out among them. Sure he has an all Vulcan crew, but he had to go through the Academy with members of other species and he comes into frequent contact with them.

    I wish we'd learned more about *why* Solok is this way. Did he not measure up to other Vulcans at some point so now he thinks he has to prove his superiority elsewhere? Is he seriously just a jerk with no catalyst behind the behavior?
     
  2. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He's a Vulcan, they are generally all jerks. Even Spock frequently put down the Humans on the Enterprise because they didn't embrace logic and strictly control their emotions. Vulcan's have a superiority complex and Solok seems to be a bit more aggressive about it.
     
  3. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    There is no point in being superior if you can't demonstrate it to the inferiors. Staying on Vulcan wouldn't let Solok demonstrate his superiority to the likes of Sisko.
     
  4. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    DS9 had a problem writing likable Vulcans. They were all jerks or murderers.

    ENT kind of had the same problem too.
     
  5. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Given that neither Solok or Chu'lak were meant to be likeable it isn't a problem at all. The only other Vulcan I can remember is the one from "The Maquis" and I can't remember her being likeable or unlikeable.
     
  6. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Was there a single Vulcan in DS9 who was supposed to be likeable? I don't recall any.

    There was an ambassador who was crummy to Bashir, a sniper, a jerk Baseball guy and his nameless posse...and a bunch of neutral ones, like Ben's old captain, Maquis lady, and a whole mess of other randoms.
     
  7. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The way the Vulcans were depicted on DS9 felt incredibly negative to me.

    TNG really didn't use Vulcans all that much, but when they did with Dr Selar and Ensign Taurik (Lower Decks) they were pretty cool. Also liked how the writers handled the return of Sarak and Spock.

    I won't talk about TOS, VOY, or ENT since they all had a Vulcan as part of the main cast that they obviously tried to develop.
     
  8. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think some fans take exception to Spock's race being portrayed as snooty, arrogant jerks in DS9, TNG and Enterprise; I liked this portrayal actually.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Solok was the most un-Vulcan Vulcan I have ever seen on Trek.

    He derided humans for acting emotionally, yet Solok was obviously emotional himself. He gloated. He smirked. He rubbed people's faces in their supposed "inferiority". Those are all emotional reactions, and Vulcans - by definition - are not entitled to that.

    No doubt the reason that the T'Kumbra had an all-Vulcan crew was because of Solok's racial prejudice and intolerance - he probably wouldn't ALLOW any non-Vulcans to serve on his ship. And who knows if the T'Kumbra would even answer a distress call from a human-crewed ship, or lift a proverbial finger to save anyone who was not Vulcan? Solok pretty much hated humans, and it showed.

    Indeed, the very concept of 'superior' or 'inferior' races is illogical in the extreme.

    Arrogance is an emotion, and Solok was the most arrogant of them all. He had no right to call himself Vulcan.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Although Vulcans suppress their emotions, they are not machines. Vulcans can engage in rivalries & competitions, and are even capable of put-me-downs like anyone else. They just do it in a way that piss most Humans off, IMO.

    And that the T'Kumbra has an all-Vulcan crew may have more to do with the ship possibly being built and launched from Vulcan. There probably are a few Federation starships launched from Earth that have predominantly or even entirely Human crews.
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No Vulcan has ever acted as openly emotional and insulting as Solok. His emotional control, if he had any, was obviously faulty.
     
  12. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Not really. Solok seemed to be a Vulcan that enjoyed pushing the buttons of Humans like Sisko, but otherwise, he seemed in keeping with most Vulcans.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ But like I said, "enjoying pushing the buttons" of anyone is an emotional pursuit - which Vulcans are not entitled to. If Solok is engaging in this, his control is slipping.

    Although a personal rivalry between Solok and Sisko would explain a lot. I can't remember, were there ever many scenes between Solok and other human characters? If Solok doesn't hate other humans like he clearly hates Sisko, then I guess that's good.
     
  14. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, Vulcans do have emotions. They simply suppress them. Vulcans have admitted to feeling grief, contentment, enjoyment, and even love. They just don't express them as much as Humans do.
    And it seems to be the case. They've known each other for a very long time.
    There's no indication that Solok hates Sisko, but he is very competitive with Sisko, and their rivalry began while they were cadets together at the Academy.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course. But Solok is clearly failing in his suppression of emotions. His gloating, smirking, and anti-Human prejudice clearly demonstrate this.

    Spock, half-human, is more Vulcan than Solok could ever claim to be.
     
  16. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, I don't agree with this at all. With the case of Solok, it's merely a case of renewing a rivalry with an old friend.
    No, Solok is merely different than Spock. Although they share many tendencies, not all Vulcans are alike. But even Spock enjoyed getting into it with McCoy now and then. T'Pol even had a condescending attitude towards Humans when she first joined the crew of Archer's Enterprise.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Neither of those got anywhere near Solok's level.

    At least Spock and T'Pol showed respect for the humans they served with. (Spock's banter with McCoy might have seemed like insults, but they were clearly still friends. And whatever distaste T'Pol might have felt was clearly tempered with her own professionalism.)

    Hell, not even Soval was as much of a dick as Solok. Soval would be appalled at Solok's attitude.
     
  18. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    I really can't agree with much of that. You may not personally like Solok, and that's fine, but I think a lot of the things you're attributing to him stems out of long-standing competitive relationship with Sisko in which they constantly tried to show the other up.
     
  19. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Even though Spock is the baseline standard for Vulcans, remember that as a half-human, Spock went above and beyond in trying to suppress his emotions, even going so far as to try to achieve kolinahr. In order to compensate for his human half, Spock had to be more Vulcan than the Vulcans. Regular Vulcans, I think, were never so emotionless as he was.
     
  20. Sadara

    Sadara Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Touching on the subject of Solok possibly renewing a rivalry in a more friendly way than some think it is, isn't it important to consider that Sisko doesn't perceive it as a game? Sisko is obviously taking it quite personally and seriously. Perceptions are real and if it's just a game to Solok, Sisko isn't finding it funny or believes Solok intends it as personal.

    I'm open to either interpretation really as I've seen great arguments in this thread. Solok does seem a bit T'Pol like in that his emotions don't seem far from the surface and he does seem rather motivated by less than logical pursuits. He expends a lot of time and effort in rubbing Sisko's nose in it time and time again. The fact that Solok accepted the challenge to a wrestling match with a drunk human is interesting.

    And Solok who refuses "to engage in this human game of taunting" has in fact been taunting Sisko for years. He can dish it out, but he doesn't take it very well.

    I find Solok fascinating. It would have been nice to see more of him.