Captain Sisko in First Contact

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by los2188, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Practically, you're adding an extra salary and reducing other actors' lines for no bigger/better result.

    Contractually, Michael Dorn was guaranteed that signing a contract with DS9 would not preclude him from doing TNG movies. Conversely, Avery Brooks was resistant to doing stuff beyond the actual TV series - still rarely does conventions and refused to participate in the "Making of DS9" video that came out after Season Two, or even grant permission for his image to be used in it. Colm Meaney had became a bigger-ticket movie star (beyond his TV contract), so he would have been expensive to use in "First Contact", too.
     
  2. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    Under Regulation 619 Picard was clearly emotionally compromised. Had Lily not smacked him back to reality he should have been relieved.
     
  3. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Colm Meaney is not that big a movie star, and we're talking about little more than a cameo appearance. Meaney seems a good guy and one who was always willing to do what the producers asked of him, such as appearing in the TNG finale. I can't imagine he would have held them up for some huge some of money for a day or two's work on the movie. Plus, he could more reasonably disappear into the background than someone like Sisko.

    I think the real area the film is lacking, as was hinted at upthread, though, is in the absence of Guinan. Guinan had an extremely personal connection to both Picard and the Borg. Her emotional arc with the Borg goes all the way back to their original appearance in "Q, Who?" and includes very important roles in "Best of Both Worlds" and "I, Borg." I think she would have been a much better, and more logical, fit to be the one counseling Picard than Lily. And Whoop Goldberg has indicated that she would have been willing to do the film and, in fact, was confused at how they could exclude Guinan from that particular story.
     
  4. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah I'd have thought having lost his wife to the Borg, Starfleet wouldn't want him there either.

    Wrong universe.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The regulation may have a different name, but I'm pretty sure a CMO would have the ability to relieve a captain under those conditions.

    Regardless of universe.

    Kirk and Matt Decker were both threatened to be relieved of command due to emotional duress.
     
  6. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    We have no idea what Sisko and Co. were up to when the Defiant was engaged in battle. I'm fairly certain that for a good chunk of the show, Worf is technically the commander of the Defiant, not Sisko. It's possible Worf had the ship out on another mission when he was called into the fight.

    If FC had been a Star Trek mini-series or something spanning multiple episodes, I could see bringing in characters like Sisko to flesh out the story. But for a single film, adding Sisko (a character that many TNG fans might not even know about) would have just overcomplicated things.
     
  7. Captain Atkin

    Captain Atkin Captain Captain

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    Colm Meaney is probably the most successful "character actor" from any of the 24th century Trek shows, when it comes to getting continous work in movies. I was surprised that he wasn't in First Contact, but for all we know, he may have been busy working on a movie at the time, and wasn't available. Still, a shame he wasn't in the film.
     
  8. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, Sisko was the commanding officer of the Defiant for the entirety of its time on the show, except for the brief period during the war in which he had been given duty on the starbase and Dax was placed in command. Worf was never commanding officer. This is evidenced by the fact that Sisko and Worf have more than one conversation about the potential of Worf becoming a starship captain one day, including one conversation in which Sisko says it is less likely to happen because of Worf's actions ("Change of Heart").

    In fact, it's never entirely clear who the first officer of the Defiant is. In the third season, it is clearly Kira, and I believe stated as such on screen. However, once Worf joins the cast, it seems to be murky between him and Kira. Sometimes Worf acts as though he is, sometimes Kira acts as though she is. I also don't think they make it clear who is placed in command of the Defiant at the end of the series when Kira assumes command of the station.
     
  9. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He is, yes. But he's not a "big name star" in the sense of commanding huge salaries, and certainly I can't imagine he would have held the producers of Trek up for some ridiculously large sum to make a brief appearance in a TNG film.
     
  10. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Perhaps you're right, but we did see Worf take the Defiant on missions without Sisko multiple times, so it's certainly not unreasonable for Worf to be in command of the ship during FC.
     
  11. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Admiral Admiral

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    That didn't stop the Admiral Janeway cameo in Nemesis. That could have been any admiral. I wasn't talking about making Sisko a major part of the story, but wild horses wouldn't keep Sisko away from a battle with the Borg. He not only has issues with them but he also helped design and build Defiant. He could have stayed with the ship while Worf went off to help out on Enterprise.
     
  12. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Well, some people in the thread are talking about Sisko having a large role in the movie, which would be a problem. If we just saw him as a random captain during the battle, that's another thing entirely. Since he was not there, however, I just assume that the Defiant was called into action while they were away from DS9, so Sisko didn't have the chance to get on board.
     
  13. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I agree, with others if we were to have any other character from DSN it should have been O'Brien. Same goes for Nemesis, it would have been nice to see the Chief making a cameo at Riker's wedding.
     
  14. NKemp3

    NKemp3 Commodore Commodore

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    The problem with Lily is that her presence made the rest of the crew more almost unnecessary. I mean you have Beverly, who knows Picard more than anyone else and is closer to him than all the others, telling Lily some garbage like "when the captain makes up his mind it is final, blah, blah, blah." Nonsense. Here is Picard who needs someone to get through to him and Beverly takes a pass? Beverly should have marched right in to the captain office and told Jean Luc exactly what he needed to hear. But TPTB dismisses her and allows some stranger whom Picard met five seconds ago to give him the lecture. And he listens to her! Really?!?

    Why did TPTB do this? Did they do it because it makes sense in terms of the story and the relationship of the characters? Hell, no. They did it because TPTB made it clear that only Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner mattered when it came to the TNG films. TPTB always talked up the greatness of Stewart's acting and thus probably wanted some accalimed actress to stand toe-to-toe with him when giving Picard his dressing down. So they went with Alfre Woodard because God forbid if they gave Gates McFadden something to do, particularly if that something meant sharing a scene with The Great Patrick Stewart. The audcaity of such a concept. :rolleyes:

    Just one of the many flaws in this very flawed film that is overrated by far too many Star Trek fans. But I can especially never get past how shabbily TPTB treated any of the actors not named Stewat and Spiner. Even worse was the response of Trek fans at the time who justified those decisions by unintenionally dissing the rest of the cast as not being as good as the Big Two. Who cares if they weren't as good? They were good enough for seven successful seasons of the TV show so why throw them under the bus as soon as they do films? I'm not a huge fan of Firefly but I took notice that how in Serenity Whedon spread the wealth and gave everyone something interesting to do or at least interesting lines and moments (even though not all actors on that show were exactly equal in terms of ability). He remembered that all the characters mattered.

    Oh, what was the original discussion about? That's right. Sisko.

    No freakin' was was a TNG film going to use a DS9 character or an actor mostly associated with DS9. VOY actors? No problem. They used two of them in TNG films, including Mulgrew playing Janeway. But a DS9 character? Once a redheaded stepchild always a redheaded stepchild. Early on there were rumors that Sisko was going to make an appearance in a scene giving Worf permission to take the Defiant to the battle. But if that was an ever a possibility I'm sure Berman made sure it didn't make the final draft. Hell, Berman didn't even tell Ira steven Behr that they were trashing the Defiant in the film. That tells you all you need to know.
     
  15. apollo1984

    apollo1984 Commander Red Shirt

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    I think it would have been some interesting dynamics to have Sisco, Worf and O'Brien a part of FC. you would have someone who was already a captain who could take over the ship with Picards increasing instability and I think by this point Sisco has managed to accept his past, this would also give Picard a strong personality to play off and to clash with.
    Worf would be effectivley stuck between two masters (as both of these he looks up to).
    O'Brian would be helping Laforge and riker on Earth in place of Reg no major stories for him but would be interesting to see as he works with backward technology in a similar way to working with DS9 tech.
     
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    An O'brien cameo would make sense and add to the story given his past on TNG. Sisko coming on board would just be a plot distraction.
     
  17. NKemp3

    NKemp3 Commodore Commodore

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    Agree. Kinda. O'Brien shouldn't have been in anything other than a cameo as well. He could have been alongside Sisko as they wished Worf good luck before he boarded the Defiant to take on the Borg. Besides Sisko didn't need any closure regarding the Borg anyway. He got that in the first episode of DS9.
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We saw Picard work through his issues in both Family and I, Borg yet he still fell apart in First Contact.
     
  19. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's because series Picard and movie Picard are in fact two separate people.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What makes you think series Sisko and movie Sisko wouldn't also be two different people?