Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'm thinking in that situation he's probably the renegade one.
     
  2. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think he's not on the same page. Who is the renegade depends on your point of view.
     
  3. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Looks like Cap's being arrested in that scene.
     
  4. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Arrested by SHIELD people (who may or may not be acting under orders).
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm not so sure. Who's in the right depends on your point of view, but "renegade" means a deserter or traitor -- literally, one who has reneged, who has gone back on one's word. More generally it's used to mean an outlaw or rebel. So if Cap is defending SHIELD against some rogue group within its ranks, then yes, they're the renegades. But if Cap is the one rebelling against SHIELD's own leadership -- which does look like it may be the case -- then he's the renegade, even if he is the one morally in the right. True, he hasn't reneged on his own principles, and he might feel that SHIELD has reneged instead. But if he's violating his oath to follow SHIELD's orders, if he's rebelling against those in lawful authority, then he is technically a renegade.
     
  6. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    That's my take, yes. Cap seems to be going rogue from SHIELD in the film based on his principles.
     
  7. jbny67

    jbny67 Captain Captain

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  8. Icemizer

    Icemizer Commodore Commodore

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    For as much as I think they missed the boat with the previous Cap outfits they really nailed the look of the blue and white version in these pics. A really great job.
     
  9. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree. Now if they just would lose the helmet or redesign it somehow it would be a perfect costume.
     
  10. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG][​IMG]



    Finally confirmed the WWII suit will return
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  11. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    The Falcon needs some red and white in his costume. The clunky military look does little for me.
     
  12. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The films tend to evolve the characters outfit/costume from introduction to something more aligned to the comic.

    I think either by films end he'll have moved to a more "suit" look like we hope or by his next MCU film appearance.

    Cap's line to Barton in Avengers just before the final battle as he was recovering was: "You got a suit, suit up then"
    Barton wasn't out there in fatigues and cameo so I expect Sam to evolve as well....with a suit, so to speak.
     
  13. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah it wouldn't make much sense for a Shield agent (I'm assuming that's what he is) to be dressed in an urban camo/stars & stripes ensemble. Cap's uniform has a historical reason for looking the way it does and it looks like early on in the film he's distanced himself from that somewhat.

    If it were me designing a version of the suit in such a way that it evoked the comic costume without looking so...um...shall we say naff? I'd go with an Arctic camo pattern for the fatigues with red glowy thing on the wingsuit and maybe red tinted goggles. Because everyone knows that glowy things = advanced futuristic tech! ;)
     
  14. IcecreamLtDan

    IcecreamLtDan Captain Captain

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    In watching the trailers and seeing the pics it seems that there is some sort of rift or disagreement between Cap and SHEILD, I'm wondering if he's just wearing an older version of the suit simply because he lost access to the current one and had to?
     
  15. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Yeah, his falling out with Shield was fairly explicit in the trailer. And I don't think his using that old uniform instead of the new *darker* Shield outfit is only about not having access to the old one, but more a symbolic statement of the ethical and moral contrast of what Cap stands for and what Shield has come to stand for.

    The obvious allegory being the old fashioned American ideals of freedom and liberty vs. the post-9/11 fear induced hysterical obsession with security an any and all costs.

    Of course those "old fashioned" ideals actually came with an unfortunate degree of racism, gender discrimination and social inequality...but that's a whole other discussion!
     
  16. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Only if you choose to bring them into the mix...judging by the first film, Cap was never about that.

    Cap is about the ideal, not the reality.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Racism and sexism were pervasive in Steve Rogers's time, true, but there were definitely those standing against them even then. In fact, I recently read a compelling article pointing out that Cap was originally written as very much a New Deal Democrat and social progressive:

    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/10/steven-attewell-steve-rogers-isnt-just-any-hero
    And politics aside, Steve Rogers (as the movie makes clear) is simply a scrupulously fair and good-natured man who doesn't like seeing anyone bullied or mistreated. Having been bullied and helpless himself, he sympathizes more with victims than with the powerful, which, in the movie, is why Dr. Erskine is willing to trust him with the power of the serum. So he wouldn't have been the type to go along with the institutionalized discrimination and injustice of his time.
     
  18. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    And in the movies, he put together a (historically unrealistic) multiracial commando squad, and even before that was depicted starring in propaganda films with a multiracial squad.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That unrealistically racially integrated squad was part of the comics too, ever since Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos debuted in 1963.
     
  20. The Old Building & Loan

    The Old Building & Loan Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    I'm aware, but even that was 20 years after the time depicted. But the bottom line I that Cap's old-fashioned ideals don't include racism.