Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I wasn't referring specifically to Thor, since he's unusually strong even by Asgardian standards in the comics. His strength level in the MCU is consistent with what it is the comics, putting him in the same class as the Hulk. But there's been no clear indication of how strong Loki or general Asgardians are supposed to be in the MCU.
     
  2. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We saw Peter MacNicol's Asgardian character bend a metal knife and snap off handcuffs like they were brittle plastic in a recent Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode. And he was just a "normal" Asgardian.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Heimdall was able to crash a Dark Elf ship just by sticking his sword into its hull twice -- and another one of those same ships was durable enough to smash apart heavy stone columns and statuary without taking significant damage. So while it's safe to say the sword itself must've been pretty extraordinary to do that much damage, Heimdall still needed to be strong enough to drive it through such a resilient hull. He also takes an explosion to the face and just looks vaguely annoyed, and then jumps about 30 feet or thereabouts to land on his feet on the Bifrost. So yeah, I'd say he's fairly superhuman.
     
  4. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I couldn't find the scan but in the Bucky Barnes-Captain America run; Bucky remarks that Steve was 3x stronger and faster than he was. Bucky who as Winter Soldier and Captain America was considered a peak human.

    This was back in the Death of Captain America arc. Issue #34.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
  5. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Heimdall actually used two long knives he keeps on the back of his belt and yes Asgardians are well considered to be all superhuman, with denser bones as well.
     
  6. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Also, according to the 2nd edition of TOHOFMU, Thor and angry Hulk were both in the vague "Class 100" category, which meant they could lift somewhere in excess of 100 tons.

    Ah, yes...forgot about that example.

    Never said MCU Asgardians weren't...it's just not clear if they're "bench press 35 tons" superhuman.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^I think that's implicit. If Heimdall's muscle power could destroy a class of ship that was untroubled by repeated collisions with thick marble columns, it stands to reason that Heimdall's muscles are more than strong enough to shatter stone.
     
  8. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I'd say that's a little vague to hang a specific bench-press strength on. Again, nobody's disputing that they're superhumanly strong, but exactly how superhumanly strong is unclear until we start seeing them lifting specific objects.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Do we need an exact figure? The point, as I understood it, was simply to establish whether a typical combat-trained Asgardian such as Loki was significantly beyond the physical strength of Captain America.
     
  10. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    That we don't have an exact figure has been my argument all along...but when I said:

    ...you replied:

    If you're now saying that it's not clear exactly how superhumanly strong they are, then we agree. But you didn't seem to be agreeing with me before.
     
  11. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    So we've re-established Asgardians as having (a) superhuman strength and endurance and (b) superior materials-fabrication technology by Terran standards. They just like to make it look really old-school.
     
  12. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    ^ Time to match the best of Asgard against the best of Krypton!

    I wonder who would come out on top?

    JK
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Difference in emphasis. You said there was no clear indication how strong they were. In the context of the earlier discussion and the question that prompted it, I took "how strong" to be a matter of whether they were in the same strength range as Captain America or a substantially greater one. One doesn't have to pin it down to the ton in order to demonstrate that it's the latter.

    And really, bench-pressing figures are a pretty arbitrary standard. Bench-press is a specialization. An athlete who's trained specifically for that exercise is going to be able to lift more than an athlete with equivalent innate ability, size, musculature, and training who's specialized in some different discipline. So it's not really the most accurate measure of whether two individuals are equally strong, and thus one shouldn't take the exact numbers as anything more than a convenient approximation for comparison purposes. What matters is the comparison itself, how one character's strength ranks in proportion to another.
     
  14. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    At this point you're going in circles. That their degree of superhuman strength hasn't been clearly established onscreen was my point all along, so why are you still arguing?
     
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mixer, meet Christopher...

    (Said with a ";)" to you both.)
     
  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Yeah, I know all too well. I'm gratified that it's not just me.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm not arguing, I'm clarifying why my interpretation of the question is focused differently than yours. This isn't about you and me; this is a public discussion of a topic of general interest, and there's no harm in different people contributing different perspectives to the discussion. There's no "right" answer that wins the thread; there's an ongoing conversation evaluating the issue from different angles.

    I mean, we're talking about comic-book characters. This should be fun and light-hearted, not contentious.
     
  18. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Christopher, your idea of a fun, light-hearted, non-contentious discussion always ends with me looking for Tylenol....
     
  19. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Random observation. In the new trailer Cap fights and defeats 10 goons (renegade SHIELD agents?) in an elevator. It's a great scene but I think the confined space was a disadvantage for Cap's assailants. They probably got in each other's way.
     
  20. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Well, I think they needed to restrain him with that electromagnet thing and poke him with their tazer rods, both of which work better in confined spaces (the latter because it's a short ranged weapon).