Captain America: The Winter Soldier pre-release thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Marvel doesn't really have a deep bench when it comes to female characters who can carry a film. Heck, they have problems finding a female character who can carry a comic book!
     
  2. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Emily Van Camp is really good in Revenge, so I have no doubt that she'll be really good in CA:TWS.
    Revenge is one of my favorite shows, so I was very happy when they said she'd been cast in Winter Soldier.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Comics aside, surely Scarlett Johansson has earned a Black Widow solo movie by now. I'm not the only one surprised it hasn't happened. And I've seen a lot of online interest in a Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) movie.
     
  4. Hau’oli Lanui

    Hau’oli Lanui See where the sky meets the sea, It calls me Premium Member

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    I think it would have to be a Black Widow/Hawkeye movie with a big dose of Shield.
     
  5. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or, if they stick close enough to the backstories in the comics, a Black Widow/Winter Soldier movie would rock.
     
  6. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I thought they'd go for that too. Johansson is a popular actress. Kickass women in black jumpsuits are popular. Action spy flicks are popular. Perhaps, CA: TWS will spark that film.

    I'm not too impressed with the Captain Marvel comic. If they do a CM film I hope they won't use that as a template.
     
  7. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    It's not about whether Johansson has earned a Black Widow movie or not, it's about whether Marvel Studios thinks making a BW movie will be profitable or not.

    They've given the lesser known characters like Ant-Man and the team GotG a movie, so don't say they aren't willing to take chances.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's kind of what we're getting in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. They said at the Comic-Con panel that it's close to the Brubaker storyline in at least some respects, and that Cap and Widow are pretty equal in prominence. Still, it's named for him.



    Yes, that is exactly what it's about. That's what I've been saying. The studios are willing to make movies about all sorts of male heroes, even Ant-Man, but they assume that any female-led movie will fail. That sexist double standard is precisely what I'm condemning here.
     
  9. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Captain

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    Not a good comparison with Ant-Man as that movie has all kinds of potential... and is very original compared to other comic based movies. personally, I have zero interest in a Black Widow movie. While Scarlett can be nice to look at, she doesn't have enough charisma and bores the hell out of me. Imo, she is the prime example of a character that needs to share the spotlight with bigger guns like Iron Man, Cap, etc. otherwise you'd fall asleep in the cinema. I don't think it's a sexist double standard, it's simply a numbers game and I think the studio is right not to go ahead with a solo Widow flick. I'd much rather see Carol Danvers get a movie. It would simply be more interesting than the usual spy movie that's been done to death. Even a Ms Marvel movie could be a tough sell, as well as every other Marvel female hero, simply because they lack name recognition. It's a big risk, and it's easy to say "sexism" when it's not your $ on the line. But, that just my opinion. The public could eat it up too. Who knows.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Depends on the script and the director. In Iron Man 2, she was nice to look at (devastatingly so) but lacked charisma. In The Avengers, once she actually had a character she could sink her teeth into and a director skilled at deepening his female players rather than simply glamorizing them, she was a revelation. With a writer and/or director like Whedon, she could certainly carry a movie.


    As I said, it's not exclusively about Black Widow. It boggles my mind that Anne Hathaway didn't get a Catwoman spinoff as soon as audiences and critics raved about her breakout performance. She was the most consistently well-received part of The Dark Knight Rises, praised even by critics who disliked the rest of the film, and there was a lot of buzz about how she deserved a spinoff -- yet there doesn't seem to have been any serious studio interest in one. And we've just heard about a long-term DC development slate that includes Sandman and Aquaman, but no mention of Wonder Woman, the third-most important character in the entire DC pantheon.


    I'd rather see multiple female characters get movies. Give us a Misty Knight/Colleen Wing detective movie, a riff on '70s blaxploitation and martial arts like the comics were. Give us Birds of Prey, and do it better than the TV series did. Heck, if you don't think Black Widow can carry a film by herself, how about a "Fury's Angels" film with Widow, Maria Hill, and either Sharon Carter or Mockingbird? (Or both?)

    And for Hera's sake, get Wonder Woman on the goldurn screen already. There's just no excuse there.


    Iron Man and Thor had very little name recognition among the general public (beyond, well, most people having heard of Norse mythology) prior to their hit movies. Marvel wasn't afraid to gamble on them.

    Besides... Marvel plasters its name all over its movies and their promotional materials. How much more name recognition does Captain Marvel need?


    And it's just as easy to use $ as a rationalization for sexism or other discrimination. Half a century ago, TV networks were reluctant to include black people in their shows because they thought it would alienate a lot of the white viewers who bought their advertisers' products. Then they did demographic surveys revealing how much buying power African-Americans had, and they realized they'd been fools for passing up that market, so they started encouraging their shows to include more diverse casts, which is how we got Uhura and Sulu in Star Trek, Barney in Mission: Impossible, and so on.

    The problem with the argument that female-led movies aren't profitable is that it's based on an underlying double standard. If a movie with a male lead bombs, nobody ever blames that failure on the sex of the movie's lead; they recognize that it had a bad script or bad acting or bad directing or bad promotion or whatever. But when films like Elektra and Catwoman bombed, the studios immediately jumped to the conclusion that they failed because they had female leads -- which is insane when you consider how many enormous flaws both movies had that are far more obvious explanations for their failure. (I actually kind of like Elektra, but I recognize it's got a lot of weaknesses and its appeal is cultish at best.) It's a spurious correlation. They're not deriving a conclusion from the evidence, they're selectively interpreting the evidence as validation for their pre-existing assumptions. The exclusion of women came first. The financial argument is just the excuse for perpetuating it.
     
  11. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That was great. Looking forward to the rest of the 14minutes of that short!!

    On the topic of Black Widow I firmly believe that after the backstory nuggets given in The Avengers + her involvement in The Winter Soldier + TA2(whatever might come out there) that Black Widow will be as primed as any female comic character to launch at least one solo theatrical project. I don't even think you'd need "heavy" doses of Hawkeye. I think including him is actually necessary due to their history as mentioned in TA but it could just be a flashback moment or two.
    A BW film could include other SHIELD that we've seen in some of these shorts such as Max Hernandez's Agent Stillwell, toss in Coulson and Maria Hill for added win. If they don't intro him in the Ant-Man film there is Agent Eric O'Grady of course. A womanizing Agent like that might prove some interesting banter with Natasha.
     
  12. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd love to see a Black Widow movie. I just have zero interest in seeing one with Scarlett Johansson.
     
  13. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I would love to see a ScarJo Black Widow movie.
    Marvel has plenty of interesting female characters, it would be nice if they would give one of them a chance and give her a movie.
    I would think that after the success of Hunger Games, studios would be more willing to take a chance on female lead action movies. We've had plenty of proof over the decades that if the movie is good, people will come.
    EDIT: In the last few years, we've also had Snow White & The Huntsman, Brave, and Salt. All of which were in the top 25 movies of their year, and made over 100M $.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  14. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    To the general audience, Catwoman is known as a villain, and for a film (and its expenses) that is a gamble. Even in the native format, how many bad guys have successfully headlined a comic? Nowhere near the level of the heroes. That's not just because of lacking creative teams, but perception: most only want to see comic-based villains as elements in a hero story.

    In my opinion, a Catwoman film is spreading DC's new movie capital too thin, when it should be reserved for their A list heroes.



    The WW issue makes no sense--but I think the problem rests with the various ideas we have seen, such as the thankfully cancelled TV series or some of Whedon's ideas for a film: if it cannot be revisionist in one way or another, WB will not touch it, as the classic WW is not "appealing" to those still suffering from knee-jerk reactions (possibly politcally correct) to the memory of Lynda Carter.


    You can take that position, but remember, action and/or fantasy films are overwhelmingly supported by males--they are the key target. To studios, they appear to be willing to take more chances on other male character films in the wake of bombs, because they know one (or more) have a chance to score big (particularly if based on well established male character sources).

    Female-helmed films are not as appealing, so when they fail, it simply justifies the lack of investment in other female character movies, as they are not seen as potential blockbusters in the first place--a revealing comment on audience perception, more than that of producers.
     
  15. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But when would such a film take place? Would it be a TDKR prequel? What's the character supposed to be doing after TDKR?
     
  16. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    I was wondering the same thing. I suspect she would have no interest in doing it. Hathaway seems like the type of actress who wants to do a variety of different roles.
     
  17. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She has actually said she would love to do a Catwoman spin-off... if Nolan were directing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  18. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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  19. Yminale

    Yminale Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's really interesting. In the comic, some of the former members joined SHIELD. I'm wondering though, if we are ever going to get Nick Fury's back story. Obviously he was no longer the founder of the Howling Commandos.
     
  20. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    Fury was probably not part of the Howlers for Marvel Cinema'Verse purposes.

    I can't see them not doing something with/about this version's backstory, though. Exactly which venue it's done in is another matter.

    As for a Black Widow movie? I'll be there for it if it happens. And I'd prefer Johansson.