Canon characters killed in lit-verse. (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by E-DUB, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Erm, sure? I mean, it's a given that that could happen to any novel. But I don't see what this weirdly hostile tone towards KRAD has to do with -- well, with anything, really.
     
  2. Elias Vaughn

    Elias Vaughn Captain Captain

    Wait, he did?

    Which one was assassinated by Section 31 after... Tezwa?

    Something like that anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  3. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    You are thinking of Min Zife of Bolarus, an original character created by David Mack who first appeared in A Time to Kill, wherein the Tezwa debacle began. President Zife, along with his chief of staff (Koll Azernal of Zakdorn) and Secretary of Military Intelligence, was assassinated by Section 31 shortly after Starfleet secretly forced him to resign at gunpoint at the conclusion of A Time to Heal. He appears in a number of other novels set during his administration. Min Zife defeated Jaresh-Inyo, the President from DSN's "Homefront"/"Paradise lost" who was running for re-election, in the 2372 Federation presidential election.

    I would urge you to edit your post to include a spoiler box.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :wtf:

    Those books are eight years old at this point. If someone hasn't read them by now, they probably aren't planning to.
     
  5. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Seconded.
     
  6. Dimesdan

    Dimesdan Living the Irish dream. Admiral

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    I also agree.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I haven't read them yet. I have them on my shelf and I'll get around to them eventually. So I appreciate the spoiler tags!:)
     
  8. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So, you haven't heard (or if you have, you refuse to accept the evident):
    With the current editors, D. McIntee and Krad are out/blacklisted. The current editors, apparently, just don't work well with them.
    For confirmation, see http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=194770


    The consequences of this:
    - we won't get any more star trek books from either author;
    - their books are very susceptible of becoming 'not part of trek lit continuity' - "Indistinguishable from magic' is already no longer part of the continuity, as confirmed by D. Mack.
    Krad's books (any element from them that was not further developed by other authors, at the very least) are in the same boat.
     
  9. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    It's not as big of a conspiracy as that. Apparently the editors decided they didn't like some of the stuff in IfM, and they've decided to ignore the book. Yeah, it's crappy, but as far as I know it was a one time thing. No one has said anything about any other books getting this treatment.
     
  10. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hope does spring eternal.

    There was nothing in IFM that affected even marginally an important plot point from D. Mack's recent book, JD. It's 'ignore status' has little to do with its content - and all to do with the author preferences of the editors. You see, the editors decided they don't like (aka work well with) the AUTHOR, not the book (both Krad and D. McIntee made this clear on this very forum).

    As for Krad. Let's take an example; the snuffing out of the Imperial romulan state - in all of 2-3 scenes - is quite eloquent (Christopher even admitted that, had the editors not changed, the IRS would very likely still exist).
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Indistinguishable from Magic is being bypassed now, perhaps there can be even more creative ways to un-bypass it in the future. Some interesting explanations as to why it's "gone away" can be devised, I would think...
     
  12. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, they reunified the Romulans, but the IRS still happened. That was plot progression, not ignoring an element they didn't like, there's a difference.
     
  13. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was getting rid of Krad-related plot elements in a unceremonious (aka rushed) fashion. DGIII did the same to elements from IFM too - and the editors told the next author, D. Mack, not to bother even with this.

    Call it 'plot progression' - the 'reset button' pattern is nevertheless evident.
    Everything Krad originated that was not heavily developed by current authors is in line for this reset button.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  14. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Not necessarily, we're still getting novels featuring Pres. Bacco, and the Typhon Pact both of which were introduced by KRAD. Other than that, I don't think there are really many KRAD introduced elements that are even playing a role in any of the current novels. Now I'm not saying that is because there's some deep dark conspiracy against him, it's just that at this point it's been so long since he wrote a Trek novel that the story line has moved forward quite a bit.
    EDIT: We also got a fair amount of followup on KRAD's MU versions of the Voyager characters in Rise Like Lions.
     
  15. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As said: Everything Krad originated that was not heavily developed by current authors is in line for this reset button.

    The death of old age of the Federation President from Homefront/Paradise Lost in Articles of the Federation - among many other developments - is in line.
     
  16. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    But if elements introduced by KRAD have been used in recent novels then obviously there is no conspiracy against him.
     
  17. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    These elements were already used by other authors before the new editorial regime; they were too interconnected developments of trek lit not to be mentioned by these authors.
    And 'conspiracy' is a pretty forced name for what's happening - it's a standard business decision; noting hidden about it.

    Just don't expect for Krad's books (art of the impossible, etc) not to be contradicted in books set in the same time periods.
     
  18. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's also worth pointing out that the issue with IfM had nothing to do with the author, it was the content. They decided that some of the stuff in the book contradicted what they wanted to do now. Don't get me wrong it's shitty behavior, so far I'm loving IfM and there are numerous ways to fix the error, but I still don't see why we have to jump the assumption that this will become a regular practice in regards to books by people no longer writing Trek Lit.
     
  19. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I guess repeating relevant information is in order:

    There was nothing in IFM that affected even marginally an important plot point from D. Mack's recent book, JD. It's 'ignore status' has little to do with its content - and all to do with the author preferences of the editors. You see, the editors decided they don't like (aka work well with) the AUTHOR, not the book (both Krad and D. McIntee made this clear on this very forum).

    For confirmation, see http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=194770
     
  20. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I'm aware of the situation with Indistinguishable from Magic and KRAD. I just don't see what this has to do with the topic at hand.


    But the topic at hand is, what canon characters have been killed in the novels?, not, what elements from prior books are in continuity with newer books?

    I mean, Dr. McCoy died of old age in 2364 in 2006's Crucible: McCoy - Provenance of Shadows, but that didn't stop him from showing up in 2381 in 2009's A Singular Destiny. Whether or not a given book is in continuity with the rest of the line is irrelevant to the topic at hand.