Can you ban your likenss from used as hologram?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Ain Jalut, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. Ain Jalut

    Ain Jalut Lieutenant

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    If someone does not want their likeness in the holodeck. Let's say i am a famous hot chick and i want to keep my body and all it's versions to myself, can he/she stop it from being used?
     
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's hard to say for sure, but it doesn't sound like it:

    Riker: This is a violation of protocol. Crewmembers should not be simulated in the holodeck.
    La Forge: Commander I don't think there's any regulation against...
    Riker: Well there ought to be.
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think so. All you need to create a hologram of someone is basically a picture. So short of banning people from taking pictures, I don't see how you can justify outlawing holograms. Really holodecks would seem to me just the next step in celebrity fanfiction.
     
  4. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    that random vulcan on voyager had sex with a hologram, so would you want creepy pervs to have sex with a replica of you?
     
  5. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and the Shouting Moderator

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    I don't think I'd have to worry about that...

    :lol:

    Such bans today would be based on someone profiting from the use of your image, right?

    So if someone is selling time in the holodeck, or selling holodeck programs with your likeness, to "creepy pervs" I suppose one would have a case against the proprietor/designer.

    Or if she were so inclined, a "famous hot chick" could license her image to a holodeck program designer, and make millions. I could imagine a few "celebrities" today doing that if they could...

    If there's no money changing hands (there's that "money in the future" thing again), I don't see how you could stop it.
     
  6. FFunctionalData

    FFunctionalData Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If they chose my likeness out of hundreds of others i would feel honored.
     
  7. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    It might be possible if you had your likeness trademarked, but as others have suggested, the ban might only be limited to profiting from the likeness. If someone wants to use your likeness for recreational purposes, it's hard to know how you'd stop them from doing so. Even if you found a way to protect your image from being duplicated, who's to say an accomplished holographer or computer scientist doesn't create a close approximation of you?

    Odo indicted that Quark could have been arrested for using Kira's image to create a hologram of her, but he was clearly trying to profit from the endeavor by selling the program to a business associate.

    --Sran
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Something that I don't think is entirely clear is if all holographic images hold the same value. Those made by extrapolation from archived images or freehanded from memory might not be as accurate or desirable as those made with holographic cameras. The same could be said of the difference between an image of a president made from others and one made from a sitting of that president. Tiron might easily created an adequate hologram by having a computer synthesize available images; he might just impost her likeness on a generic humanoid form. On the other hand, he might be seeking a level of detail that is otherwise impossible without direct observation and recording of Kira's form.

    If any of that is the case, than it might be possible for the individual to control their image and prevent an accurate hologram from being produced. That doesn't mean that a picture of their face won't be superimposed on a sex doll.
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Or, as often may be the case in such things, it's the thought that counts: the simulation won't feel the same unless it has been obtained by violating Kira's privacy.

    One thing to consider here is the multitude of cultures and legal systems involved. Virtual material like this would easily cross national borders and be highly legal in some places (i.e. you go to jail for trying to prevent people from freely exploiting images of you) and highly illegal in others. Somebody like Tiron might get his peeping done in free-thinking nation X, and then use the resulting simulation in nation Y where peeping carries an extended death penalty but simulation does not.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    That sounds about right. You'd think that Starfleet would have some policies in place regarding this, but who knows what goes on those dodgy Ferengi holosuites? :)
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...And since we know that Starfleet does not have a regulation that would allow Riker to feed Barclay's "Cyrano de Bergerac" simulation back to the lieutenant through an inappropriate orifice, we can probably rest assured that UFP civilian law has nothing to offer to Riker in this respect, either.

    Quark is a daring criminal whenever this benefits him, so his doings tell us relatively little about the law, any law (although they may tell quite a bit about Ferengi customs and mores). Sisko probably has a lot of pull on what Quark can and cannot do even if neither UFP nor Bajoran law quite supports him, but he has very little motivation to interfere in Quark's businesses usually. In turn, Odo is highly motivated, and wouldn't concern himself with either UFP, Bajoran or Ferengi law in cases that really mattered. The Kira-imaging thing obviously did matter to him, so we can't really tell what the point of the law would have been there.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Considering Barclay's version was 12-15 inches shorter than the real Riker, it could be argued that the recreation was not a direct copy, thus not a violation of Riker's privacy.
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    If there were regulations against this sort of thing in general, it would probably be a matter of consent rather than specifics. Picard wasn't delighted to see an imperfect likeness of him appear in the Captain Picard Day contest; Riker could declare himself offended by a cardboard image named "Dill Striker" and carry the day in court.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Image search engines will at some point be that good that they can recognizes faces with high certainty. So you will be able to put up a photograph of your face and search for all images on the web that contain your face.

    Everything will be in the "cloud" at that point as well, so you WILL be able to search for everything.

    And everyone else will be able to do the same.

    Data security and privacy protection will have to be reassessed completely at that point.


    So there might be a system where you can upload your own likeness and thus prevent anyone from using photographs of you without your permission.

    Think of it as a modified image tagging that Facebook already has. Right now Facebook recognizes faces, and when someone tags you, you are asked if you agree with that. A preemptive version of it would be that Facebook automatically recognizes YOUR face and with the correct privacy settings the image will not be shown to the public unless you agree with it.
     
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's not a moral difference between a creepy guy taking a picture of anyone's face and photoshopping it to a picture of a naked body and using that as fuel for fantasies. Holograms would just be better technology of the same thing. Both DS9 and Voyager said you needed a giant bulky special camera to capture a full realistic 3d nude image. I can see -that- having restrictions, but otherwise I always assumed the computer just "fills in the gaps" with something realistic if the clothes come off in the program.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    But even if you don't, this someone will still be free to utilize your face - just not within the Facebook context, not without some extra fiddling...

    It's difficult to see how things could be different in that respect in the future.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. desertstarlover

    desertstarlover Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    And laws are as varied as the localities in which they are created. How could laws be enforced across a quadrant?
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    By sending Captain Kirk, of course.

    Curiously, Starfleet seems to be the only law enforcement organization operating in the Federation (apart from a single agent from some sort of a "secret service" called Federation Security in ST3:TSfS - a man who subsequently sent his suspect to a Starfleet gaol). If enforcement is so monobloc, it wouldn't be difficult to speculate that laws are as well, and that only a single locality creates laws in the UFP.

    Of course, such speculation runs into the problem of Kirk not really knowing the laws he's supposed to enforce. In "Amok Time", he actually gets himself killed because he doesn't know Vulcan law regarding duels to death! In "Cloud Minders", he encounters a long-running enslavement practice on the Federation planet Ardana, a practice apparently well known to others in the Federation (as they are longterm clients of Ardana on the mineral zenite), a practice openly admitted to by the local government in the same phrase where they threaten to complain to Kirk's superiors about his interference as is their right as UFP members.

    Picard at least typically stumbles with alien law in cases where said aliens hope to become UFP members in the near future. And Sisko and Janeway operate outside the Federation, leaving us somewhat starved of useful evidence, as Kirk lived too early to tackle holographic simulation laws.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Push The Button

    Push The Button Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    LAFORGE: Let me tell you something. You'd get more action out of a good book than you'll ever see on this date, I'll guarantee it. She's not going to waste her time on someone like you.
    WESLEY: Someone like me?
    LAFORGE: She's way out of your league.
    WESLEY: Since when did you become an expert on women?
    LAFORGE: Compared to you, every male on this ship is an expert on women.
    WESLEY: Well at least I don't have to find my women on the holodeck!

    Best Wesley quote, ever.