Can Data only receive order from Riker (& up) ?

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by DynV, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. DynV

    DynV Ensign Newbie

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    I never noticed before that Crusher (Beverly) outranked Data as she's seldomly commanding. Thine Own Self (7x16), Troi (Deanna) become a commander and although it was pretty clear it was just a part-time thing, it got me wondering now that she joined Crusher outranking Data, can either of them give him an order?

    To me, a second officer means that only the first and the one in charge (captain) can give him an order ; additionally those further up the ranks (admirals, etc.). Is there like a condition in the ranks? Before considering the rank, one must check the ship officer order (1st, 2nd, ...) ? Is there a precise set of condition?

    Thank you kindly
     
  2. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Technically, yes, anyone with a higher rank than data can give him an order.

    But given that we've seen Picard follow "orders" from Data (such as in "Hero Worship" when data told Picard to lower the shields), I think Data would do the same.
     
  3. Scifiman

    Scifiman Cadet Newbie

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    Yes they could. Also, Tasha had no problems getting Data to do things for her.
     
  4. Scifiman

    Scifiman Cadet Newbie

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    Does anyone here write Star Trek TNG Novels? I did. Want to read it?
     
  5. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    A higher rank telling a lower rank what to do: order
    A lower rank telling a higher rank what to do: suggestion
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Now that's psychiatry! :lol:
     
  7. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    Using multiple techniques.
     
  8. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Crusher outranked everyone on the ship in the sense that she was the chief medical officer and could order anyone around if it pertained to their health and well being.

    Picard and Riker were obviously the top two people on the ship. Having Crusher and Troi holding commanders' pips complicates things as yes, they are commanders in rank but not by full-time position.

    Data, who as one of his primary functions aboard the Enterprise was as its second officer, would appear to be the default #3 aboard ship, despite the fact that Crusher was always a commander during the series as was Troi near the end. So its a question of position and context.

    Romulans are attacking and Picard and Riker are stuck on the holodeck blissfully unaware as they romanticize about jazz and women with a knockout in a computer generated gin joint: Data is the ideal person for command.

    A crazy plague is taking over the ship and incapacitating the crew by basically getting them drunk off their asses: Crusher would be the person to default to in order to cure everyone.

    You would, I think, never see a situation where Crusher or Troi would pull rank on Data after his years of experience just for shits and giggles. Note also that Data always, ALWAYS referred to the two by their titles of "Doctor" and "Counselor" and would likely have maintained this formality should they be in command.
     
  9. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    That raises an interesting question. Do officers in the military who are doctors get referred to by their rank or simply as Dr.?
     
  10. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Still, even in the bolded situation, the chief medical officer may still be in charge of the medical situation, but you still want a command or support person in charge of the ship to take care of all of the rest of the things going on.


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    Tiberius, regarding your example from "Hero Worship", the following is a better explanation.

    Picard could have still ignored Data's "suggestion" of lowering the shields, but at his own peril. One of the things you learn about command is learning when to blindly trust a subordinate.
     
  11. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    One tends to always blindly trust Data.
     
  12. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Geordi did.

    BAZINGA!
     
  13. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    M*A*S*H would be a good guide on this. It depends how gung-ho the particular officer is.

    Are they in it to be a doctor or military?

    Maybe less "military" in 24th century Starfleet though.
     
  14. 7thsealord

    7thsealord Captain Captain

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    Would also depend on the Doctor's actual position or job within the organization as well.

    For example, in 'All Good Things', future-Beverley had become the Captain of a Star Fleet vessel. As such, she was addressed as "Captain" rather than "Doctor" - noting also that there were probably a bunch of other doctors on her ship anyhow.
     
  15. Dr. Crusher

    Dr. Crusher Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    "Cause and Effect" is case in point on this one.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Doctor," most of the time. My dad was a Major in the Army Medical Corps and he said that he was never referred to by his rank, always Doctor.

    I'm sure there are certain unusual situations where the rank might be used, but he never encountered any in his time of service. And (unlike in Starfleet, apparently) he would not be in the chain of command, and would not normally be able to give orders to more junior officers. For example if he'd been a Navy doctor and serving on a ship, he would not be in that ship's chain of command. Not even if an emergency happened and all the senior officers were incapacitated - he'd have to take orders from even the greenest Ensign on board. Only line officers can give orders - doctors can't. Except when medicine/health issues are involved. Apparently Starfleet differs from this, since we've seen Crusher and Troi (and even Bashir) give orders that have nothing to do with their medical roles.
     
  17. tafkats

    tafkats Vice Admiral Admiral

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    TNG itself is a little unclear on this point, as Troi had to take a test to become qualified as a bridge officer, but during "Disaster" is deferred to by the far more qualified (in military terms) Ro and O'Brien ... so it's a little unclear what she gains when she passes the test in "Thine Own Self," besides the rank of commander.

    It's interesting that in M*A*S*H, a fictionalized and extremely un-military medical corps, even the most un-military character are usually referred to as Captains Pierce and McIntyre (or Captains Pierce and Hunnicutt, depending on the season).
     
  18. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Troi deferred to O'Brien and Ro because of their experience in such matters, but when all was said and done during that crisis, she was still in command. Both O'Brien and Ro still followed her orders and her authority until the crisis was over.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    AFAIK, the test wasn't simply to qualify for bridge duty - Troi already had that. It was so she could *command* a bridge watch.
     
  20. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    ^ Was Troi sitting to Picard's left considered "bridge duty"?