Can Capitalism be replaced ?

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by EmoBorg, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    I know you're not opposed to the welfare state, and perhaps it has been overdone in Europe. I'm just saying what we have in the US is pretty damn pathetic--unless you are a senior, then it is just somewhat less pathetic.

    Unfortunately, here in the US our political options for "economic stimulus" are limited to tax cuts and, um, spending cuts. Yep, that's pretty much it. Republicans have sold the lie that Obama's stimulus was an expensive failure, so that sort of thing is off the table for the foreseeable future. You can imagine my frustration.
     
  2. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Yep, the right is winning the ideological battle while the left was unable to pressure the centrist president into doing the right thing. It is not like Roosevelt did what he did because he had balls of steel, he was pressured by the public into doing the right thing. The job of a democratic citizen is not to vote the best man into office. Most leaders are mediocre at beast. The job of a democratic citizen is rather to force the powers that be to do the best thing. You could call it the Nixon factor, a staunch anti-liberal who was forced to implement liberal policies.
    In the first half of the last century it took long until the pressure from the streets had an impact. It won't happen faster today. As a friend of mine once remarked, we are not going onto the streets because we are too well-off. While protests like Occupy got rid of this identity politics nonsense (of course I am for the struggle of women, LGBT folks, ethnic minorities and so on but the major battleground has to be the economic one) and were a sign that the Old Left might reemerge it were mainly middle class people who went onto the streets. It also takes the underclass, an underclass which is rightly disillusioned by this arrogant middle-class Third Way type of centre-left we currently have. Or to say it with Crhis Hedges, "they [Harvard academia] liked the poor, but didn't like the smell of the poor."
     
  3. Garak

    Garak Salty Dog Premium Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Communists. And they wonder why they can't be taken seriously.
     
  4. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    I am not a communist but this post neatly reveals the problem of most forms of anti-communism: its marriage with anti-intellectualism.
     
  5. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No.

    Capitalism encourages entrepreneurship and innovation. Profit potential motivates people to build and grow. Competition prods entrpreneurs to stay one step ahead.

    Everything we have in the modern world was built either directly or indirectly through competition in the marketplace.

    There is no better system ever conceived by humans.
     
  6. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Slavish devotion to a single ideological worldview is rarely healthy, and usual counterproductive, because it stiffens innovation and suppresses entrepreneurship through the elimination of competitive forces.

    A capitalist, especially a capitalist, should know that.

    :p
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  7. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    China, regardless of what it says on the label, can no longer be regarded as a communist state. It's marriage of state and corporate interests qualifies it as "Fascist".
     
  8. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, ok. Trying to build up your post count?
     
  9. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    i agree with you on that. China practices state capitalism nowdays. It is a marriage of businesses and government. In order for the chinese communist party to stay in power, it will stroke the flames of nationalism. Mixing state capitalism with Chinese nationalism will result in a Fascist type of government in China soon.
     
  10. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Just pointing out the obvious logical fallacy in your post. I post enough crap on this board to ever worry about my post count. :p

    On the other hand, maybe you should think things through instead of getting snippy when you get called on your sloppy and ideologically-blinded reasoning.
     
  11. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    Capitalism can and will be replaced. No one form of economy has lasted forever and it'd be foolish to think that capitalism will.
     
  12. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know there have been threads before about "Trekonomics" and I'm not looking to go down that route again, but if anybody ever invents something like the replicator a lot of traditional economic thinking will be quickly defenestrated.

    Don't think it's not possible, 3D printing technology is getting A: better and B: cheaper every day.
     
  13. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd rather it isn't, it's given me such a feast over the years.
     
  14. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } alta moda Moderator

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    You, me, both.
     
  15. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is there anybody here with science background (my background is engineering), who can explain if it is possible for matter to be converted from one state to another state technologically like those replicated items in star trek.

    Matter differ from each other in terms of density and arrangement of the atoms. If such a matter conversion technology can come into play in the future, the economic system will be changed forever. Matter conversion technology in the hands of government will lead to the decline of private corporate enterprise. Will that be a good thing or bad thing? Will that lead to a new form of socialism based on technology? I am person of the left so i am kinda for it.
     
  16. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Demonstrating the possibility of the replicator will either coincide with, or else probably immediately lead to, its invention.

    So, the short answer is that, no, no one can explain if it is possible. If someone could, then I'd get ready for there to be a lot of replicators around in your lifetime.
     
  17. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    This doesn't imply that you suddenly live in a post-scarcity world. Replicators are still costly to produce and energy is not available at zero cost either. Out on the frontier some starship might be engaged in a conflict on dilithium.
    Sisko once mentioned transporter rations so what has changed in Trek is not merely technology but also the attitude of people. You need acceptance for something like rations, you need people to stop always wanting more. In econ-speak we see in Trek a change of technology as well as preferences.
     
  18. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think, and I could be wrong here, that Sisko's mention of "transporter rations" may have been a reference to his time at the academy and that such "rationing" may simply have been applicable to cadets.
     
  19. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    True but if it is rationed for cadets it is most likely also rationed for ordinary citizens. Hard to imagine that cadets are worse off than civilians.
    The other options are that you have to pay for it or that you have to rationalize your demand for a transport in some bureaucracy and in my opinion they to do not sound very Trek-ish.
     
  20. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The UFP alway struck me as a European Union/NATO type of grouping. The individual planets in UFP do have a lot of autonomy just like the states in the EU. Maybe the UFP helps with technology, planetary defense and gives assistance in emergencies but the planets are free to run their own affairs. Perhaps the UFP constitution help guarantee each planet's autonomy.