Bring Back Kathryn Janeway to the Voyager books! Online Petition!

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Syn.Sixx, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I very much doubt it - it would not have the name of a major star universally identified with the role on the cover as author, and it would probably confuse a casual reader. There's a difference between Kirk being used 80(ish) years after his era and having two versions of the same era, one without and one with Janeway.

    I also doubt sales would be strong enough to justify it.

    True - I really had not thought of this. What would be the point of bringing her back to rot in prison ?
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Only in eight novels by William Shatner; novels that are ignored by the main lines of ST tie-in novels, and even "New Frontier".

    He is in "Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many". And so is Admiral Janeway!

    What bias? I loved the character of Janeway and I loved Kate Mulgrew's performances. But I also enjoyed watching Admiral Janeway forfeit her life to help defeat the Borg in "Endgame" - and "Before Dishonor"!

    And Kirsten Beyer's books are doing extraordinarily well. The prologue to "Full Circle" brought tears to my eyes, and it was only starting!

    So: conversation over, huh?

    Have a nice life. :rommie:
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's bull. Let's say that a jury convicts a murderer, and then years later the murderer escapes and kills the jurors' families. Does that make the jurors directly responsible for the deaths of their families? Of course not! It would be ridiculous to think that! A different murderer, one who felt remorse or wasn't as good as escaping or just wasn't as depraved and ruthless, wouldn't have killed them. So it was the murderer's own choices and actions, not the jurors', that made the ultimate difference in whether the families lived or died. So the responsibility lies with the murderer.

    The Borg had been waging an unrelenting war against all other life in the galaxy for thousands of years. They'd slaughtered or assimilated uncounted trillions well before Janeway ever met them. They had already tried to assimilate the Federation at least twice and we know they had ongoing plans to try again. What they did in Destiny was merely the continuation of their own ongoing aggression against all other life. They and they alone are responsible for that.

    The only way it would be remotely rational to suggest that Janeway was responsible for Destiny would be if the Borg had been a completely passive race, keeping to themselves and minding their own business, and Janeway had spontaneously decided to destroy their transwarp hub out of sheer malice, prompting their retaliation. But of course you know as well as the rest of us that that isn't even close to what happened. The Borg started it. The Borg were actively hostile toward the Federation and every other civilization in the whole damn galaxy. Janeway acted in defense of those civilizations. She did the right thing by trying to stop the beings who were doing wrong. The fact that those wrongdoers retaliated by choosing to inflict a greater wrong doesn't change the fact that she did the right thing. Because it was the Borg's choice to retaliate. The responsibility lies with them.

    By your logic, nobody should ever take any action to stop a criminal or a warring nation, because then they'd be responsible for any retaliation the criminal or nation chose to inflict. By your logic, having police and courts and defensive armies is an immoral act, and we should all just sit back passively and do nothing to resist the predators and monsters because it's somehow our fault if they choose to direct their pre-existing predatory behavior into retaliation against our acts of self-defense. Is that seriously what you believe?


    As the person who wrote that scene, I have to disagree emphatically with your interpretation. Lucsly wanted Janeway prosecuted for tampering with history, but he wouldn't have been so incredibly misguided as to think Janeway was somehow responsible for an act of genocide committed by a species that's already been committing genocide on an ongoing basis for thousands of years. That was never, ever, ever a factor in Lucsly's objections (and not just because that scene happened before Destiny).

    Besides, you're forgetting the part where
    the time agent from the future revealed that the events of Destiny had to happen so that the Borg would be defeated for good. If Destiny hadn't happened, the Borg would've eventually gone on to assimilate or destroy all other civilizations in the whole galaxy. So Janeway's tampering with history ultimately saves millions or billions of times as many lives as were lost in Destiny (since assimilated drones are as good as dead anyway if there's nobody left to liberate them). So really, you should hate Watching the Clock because its actual message is that Janeway's actions in "Endgame" were even more necessary and beneficial than anyone could've imagined.



    Only in the separate continuity of the Shatnerverse, and that's because William Shatner wanted it to happen. If Kate Mulgrew came to Pocket and said "I want to write books about Janeway so would you let me resurrect her?" then the folks at Pocket would eagerly say "yes" because they'd welcome having a celebrity's name on their book covers. It's about fame, not gender.


    And if you'd follow the link I posted in my first reply, you'd see that the books have killed off numerous other male and female characters from canon who have not been brought back, including, most recently,
    Scotty.

    Besides, given that the vast majority of the regular Trek characters killed in canon have been male (Tasha and Jadzia are the only females, and they were both already "brought back" after a fashion), it inevitably follows that the list of canonically dead characters brought back in the literature must be dominated by males. It couldn't possibly be otherwise. So that cannot be used as evidence of a gender bias on the part of the tie-in creators.


    That's not what he said. He said you're out of line to blame her death on sexism. It's valid to express your own wishes and opinions. It is not valid to make unsupported accusations about the motivations and beliefs of the people you disagree with.
     
  4. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah.
     
  5. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  6. Bob Karo

    Bob Karo Captain Captain

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    Is it too late to start a Bring Back Duffy petition?
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Hell, let's bring back everyone, starting with Pike's yeoman who died before the events of "The Cage."
     
  8. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    So baisically we're talking about a Star Trek Blackest Night then.
     
  9. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah lets do that, super powered zombi trek characters killing everyone to add to their zombie army sounds awesome.
     
  10. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then we can ask: Who's the better zombie- zombie Picard or zombie Kirk? Zombie Janeway just doesn't compare.
     
  11. Syn.Sixx

    Syn.Sixx Ensign

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    I really wasn't sure how to react to this, so I'm going to instead link to another post here on the TrekBBS forums as answer to your words. In the thread "Before Dishonour...seriously?!", the author of the recent Voyager novels points out the flaws in that line of reasoning. Kirsten Beyer's words far outshine anything I could say to counter it, so instead I'll link to her post now, and let her answer stand for me instead

    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=5508718&postcount=376
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    But those novels were done in such a way that a Kirk fan could easily slot them in to the shared novel continuity, ignoring the minor continuity issues that arise between the books. They even use the same USS Titan crew invented for the Star Trek: Titan spin-off novels.
     
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, but when you read "New Frontier" (and a few other novels), you encounter stray dialogue that suggests - and sometimes reveals - that Kirk is still dead.
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    ...less of which exists in total than the references in tv/film Trek that tell us other parts of tv/film Trek can't have happened.

    IIRC, New Frontier itself has recently come under some scrutiny for having several discontinuities with the greater novelverse, too.
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    So? Over the decades, PAD has often gone out of his way to find ways to rectify any errors that have appeared in NF, eg. the canonical gender of the captain of the Repulse, the other Shelby's promotion, Robin's incorrect rank pips, Janos's appearance, planet Neural, etc.

    His "Kirk is still dead" was explicit and deliberate. :rommie:
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    So are some of the discontinuities between the TV shows. It doesn't mean fans can't ignore them and pretend everything's in one big, happy universe, if they so choose.

    We could always arrange a tag team cage fight between PAD and parner of his choosing vs. the Reeves-Stevenseseses to settle this once and for all....
     
  18. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway fans who never read licensed tie-in novels before, and preferred to download free online fanfics where Janeway is happily coupled with Chakotay, could also ignore the licensed tie-in novels where she's dead, too. ;)

    And 'round we go again.
     
  19. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, that's always bothered me and just seems so unfair. Anti-Yeoman bias if you ask me.

    Campaign anyone ?

    :devil:
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Actually we did see that yeoman character in the first few issues of Marvel's Early Voyages comic. He was named Dermot Cusack and was a good friend of Pike's, which is why Pike took his death on Rigel VII (an event depicted in issue 3) so hard and was initially hostile toward Cusack's replacement, Yeoman Colt. (In "The Cage" and "The Corbomite Maneuver," it was treated as unusual for a captain's yeoman to be female -- oh, how things changed later on.)