Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New Movie

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Shilliam Watner, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Shilliam Watner

    Shilliam Watner Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Location:
    In linear time
    The only music he has even composed for the film was only for the 9 minute Imax footage released Friday. He hasn't even seen the whole film yet. This is what he had to say about adding TOS music to the film.

    http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star...nes-Geniuses-Who-Make-It-Happen-34623-p4.html

    To me that is Star Trek. How you use it is really up to the story and you really have to think long and hard about how you do it because if you do it in the wrong spot it feels wrong or feels cheesy. And in the instance of the last movie, we tried it in the body of the film, but it never really worked because, you know, the truth is that it wasn’t Star Trek until they were at the end of the film as a crew together on the bridge… with this film I have no idea yet.”


    “Up to this point the only music I’ve written is what you’ve seen in this, so I don’t know what I’m going to do yet because I haven’t seen the whole film yet,” the composer said. “I don’t know what the rest of the film needs or asks for. I have to wait until I see it.”
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Wow, that's interesting. So much great TOS music, you don't even have to use the fight scene stuff.. though you could rework it in such a way that it didn't dominate. I want to hear the Vulcan angst music again.
     
  3. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    lol @ JJ's secrecy. Not even the composer knows more about the movie than we do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  4. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    I'm glad, it'd be good if MC could do for the theme what Jerry Goldsmith did for it in TMP.
     
  5. KalEl

    KalEl Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    I want the fight scene music
     
  6. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Hehehe, finally someone of the involved who admits the last film wasn't Star Trek. :lol:
     
  7. Shilliam Watner

    Shilliam Watner Commander

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Location:
    In linear time
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    I caught that too.:techman:
     
  8. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Location:
    Star's End
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Except Giaccino doesn't mean it the way the so called haters would like to interpret it.
    From his point of view as a composer, it didn't feel right to incorporate TOS music in the first one because in TOS they were already together and a family. Something which didn't start to happen in XI until the end.
     
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Not just someone involved, one of JJ Abrams's inner circle. SCORE!

    Okay, but on the topic at hand, since he only talks about "the Alexander Courage theme" I'm guessing he's only talking about the opening theme, and even then he could just be talking about the Star Trek Fanfare portion of it, which has been used in every movie, and Courage always does get credit for it, even on TNG. It's not a Star Trek movie without the Fanfare. Even if it's not in the opening credits, it is somewhere in the movie. Always.

    However, I'd place better money on hearing newer variations of "Enterprising Young Men" than hearing The Fight Music or the theme from The Doomsday Machine, even though they are better.
     
  10. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ulster
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Listen at the point where Kirk unfurls the scroll, there's a TOS musical cue right there, and it fits nicely with the scene.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Except for ST:TMP. The long-line "song" portion of the Courage theme (which was rarely used in TOS itself) was used for the captain's log voiceover sequences (and Goldsmith brought in Courage himself to do those two cues), but the fanfare is never used. So every Trek movie has some part of the Courage theme, but TMP is the only one without the fanfare.

    As for the "fight music" (more properly known as "Ancient Battle" and "2nd Kroykah" by Gerald Fried), not only would it entail paying additional royalties since it's by a different composer (the only TOS composer still living, in fact), but I think by this point it's become enough of a pop-culture meme that it would more likely evoke laughter from the audience than the desired mood. And why single out Fried's work? Why not Fred Steiner, who did the most TOS episodes and contributed unforgettable motifs for Kirk and the Enterprise as well as the Romulans and Klingons? Why not Sol Kaplan, who gave us the "Doomsday Machine" score?

    The idea of reusing familiar motifs from TOS is appealing, sure, but I'm not sure it's the best way to construct a film score. Giacchino did some nice homages of Lalo Schifrin's two main Mission: Impossible themes (the title theme and the ubiquitous "The Plot") in his two M:I film scores, but the uses of "The Plot" tended to be brief -- and this was a theme that was the basis of the vast majority of the original series' music. In that context, it makes sense to use it at least a little. But with ST, there are so many distinctive motifs from so many distinctive composers. Sure, the casual fan of TOS music may find "Ancient Battle" to be the one thing other than the fanfare that really stands out, but to the more dedicated TOS music fan or scholar, or to a buyer of the limited-edition complete soundtrack collection that just came out, it's clear that it's just one of many important themes. There's no single piece of music that defines the entire series like the fanfare does, or like "The Plot" does for M:I.

    So I would expect the next movie's score to be much like the previous one's -- built mostly on Giacchino's own themes and style, but incorporating the Courage fanfare to some extent.
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Don't be blinded by fandom. Nobody in the so called "general audience" knows it.
     
  13. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    With very rare exceptions, the composer is always the last one get to work, because he can't begin doing his job until everyone else is finished doing their bit. If someone makes a last-minute change, the composer often has to start over, or at least do a major overhaul.
     
  14. KalEl

    KalEl Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    They may know it from The Cable Guy, but I doubt they would make the connection right away. The fight music could be pretty epic if you slowed it down and added some kettle drums and maybe a chello or violin. You could definately make it very cool and almost evil sounding.
     
  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    See what I keep thinking they should do is have some sort of professional fighting tournament, maybe even just somehting on a display monitor in the background, and have the Fight Music accompany that. It could be a nice injoke without disrupting the flow of the movie, and the only laughter it would cause among the audience could be intentional.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    On the contrary -- it's been referenced widely in pop culture. Aside from the use in The Cable Guy mentioned above, it's been used as a gag in The Simpsons, Futurama, the Chris Elliott sitcom Get a Life, and Warehouse 13. There was also a Dexter's Laboratory cartoon that used a pastiche of the music in a "Gamesters of Triskelion" parody sequence set at an SF convention, and I'm sure there have been other pastiches as well.
     
  17. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Casino Royale did a similar thing. The James Bond theme wasn't played at all until the very end of the film. He wasn't Bond up until that point.
     
  18. gottacook

    gottacook Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Location:
    Maryland
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    What Christopher calls "The long-line 'song' portion of the Courage theme" was, I thought, badly used in Trek '09 - I especially loathed the repetition of it. It's not a verse of a longer song (despite the existence of the Roddenberry lyrics); the "second verse, same as the first" treatment was all wrong.
     
  19. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Location:
    In the bleachers.
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Actually, using the theme at the end was a sign of success. A rebirth, if you will. It made one think of the past and also of things to come. Hell, I teared up when I heard it.

    I might not have this one hundred percent correct, but I remember Abrams saying there was some debate about when use Courage's TOS theme, and if it should be used at all. He finally decided it had to be at the end of the movie, after they (maybe even meaning those off-screen as well) had earned it.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Re: Breaking News: Michael Giacchino Wants To Add TOS Music Into New M

    Exactly. This is a common practice among composers. Hans Zimmer has spoken of how he didn't really express his Batman theme fully in Batman Begins until the end of the picture. And I'm not sure, but aside from the main titles, I don't think John Williams really used his Superman theme in Superman: The Movie (at least, not more than snippets) until Clark put on the costume and flew over the camera.

    A theme represents a character, entity, or idea, and if the thing it represents isn't fully formed until the final act of the movie, it isn't emotionally appropriate to use the theme before then. You can hint at it, evolve it over the story alongside the characters' evolution, but you don't use it before it's been earned.