Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by FrontierTrek, Mar 19, 2013.
Thank the "Prophets" he had very little to nothing to do with DS9.
That's an edgy opinion.
I interviewed Braga back when First Contact came out, and he came as close as he could to admitting that a lot of his stuff on Voyager wasn't what he wanted to write, but a situation where the writing room wanted to do a character(/soap opera) piece, but the studio insisted that the ship be in danger, so he co-wrote a 'frame' where an invented nebula effect was going to destroy the ship, and a sweep of inventideron particles solved the problem 41 minutes in.
Sounds like an interesting interview. Got a copy or link for it?
Nope, they wrote the whole thing while writing Generations. There was no part 1 / 2 originally, it was just broken up for repeats.
SFX, around issue 20-ish. But I suspect some of the Voyager-related stuff remains on the tape, not the print version - First Contact was the big focus.
VOY and ENT were definitely huge falls from the heights of TNG and DS9. Having to answer to the networks wasn't a good thing at all.
This sums up my feelings exactly. A savy writer and showrunner knows how to get arround the idiotic ideas or suggestions of of executives. The reality is that a BIG part of the problem was also Berman. Ira Behr himself has commented on the absurd arguments that he would get into with Berman over story concepts for DS9 (like Berman fighting him on whether Nog could lose a leg). Berman had no vision and was company man at heart. He did not really care what they put out as long as the execs were happy. Neither her nor Braga were all that interested in pushing the envelope. They were just interested in treading water...and that was what ultimately killed Prime Trek.
Did he give you a swirly in high school or something?
No. It's a factless accusatory attack completely void of substance.
That shit don't fly around here. Try harder.
You're right, we don't. Then again, we don't need to. Braga was no newb when he signed onto Voyager and Enterprise, he knew the culture, conditions and constraints. He also re-upped many times. Rather than test boundaries or rock boats (as others had successfully done) he opted to play things safe. At every turn he sought to prove he was a "good company man" all the way.
If he had stood up at all back then he would be regarded differently now. But he didn't. We know this because he rose quickly and steadily through the ranks until he was in charge of "Voyager" and the fudge factory known as "Enterprise."
Now, as more time goes by, he just comes across as a guy trying to rewrite history.
Not surprising considering how hyper-"corporate" everything seems to have become. Then again that pressure has always been around. The customer for any good or service is the person or entity that is cutting the check. Who wouldn't want to have a say in what they're bankrolling?
Also not all corporate input is bad. Many of the most popular and endearing features of a series' have come about as a result of "network meddling" (read Solow & Justman's book "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story" for many examples). And as you probably already know, the history of comic books in America has always been a thing of publishers forever chasing the tail of profits by conforming their lines to meet public demand.
Which is less than what TOS had to deal with (26 fifty-minute episodes a season). Some programs had orders of 32 one-hour episodes per season. In the context of history and the bigger picture Braga really has no excuse other than he didn't care beyond that threshold in which a hack would care.
My opinion. And, of course, I appreciate and respect all the differing outlooks represented here. Salute.
Ira Behr couldn't when he did the Twilight Zone series for UPN.
The DS9 writers had it WAY easy, and they whine about how it wasn't easier.
Behr's a whiner who doesn't appreciate how things could've been worse.
He wanted DS9 to be the only Trek show on at the time and wait until it was done to do VOY. He had the right ideas, but couldn't fight off the Paramount Execs above him.
No they weren't, they're just scapegoats that get singled out for abuse by folks who want scapegoats.
Yeah, I think we do.
Not really. He hadn't done a network show as constrained as VOY was before.
No one successfully did it against UPN.
No, I think you'd still think he was a hack who wasn't strong enough to overpower Network execs (which even Ira Behr and Moore couldn't do).
No, he's a guy that isn't trapped by contracts and can speak more freely.
TOS was only on for 3 years.
UPN is a perfect justification.
The characters aren't interesting. Malcom and Trip don't do anything except annoy each other and break ranks. It's dull.
To be fair to Braga, I DO think he and his writers came up with some pretty cool and inventive plots for VOY. Before I gave up on the show around the 5th season, I remember there being a lot of really clever scifi ideas and twists in there -- ideas which probably would have made for some excellent episodes of TNG at some earlier point.
The problem was that between the generic and lifeless VOY characters, and the reset button which had completely undercut the credibility of the show long ago, I was just never able to really care about anything that happened. It felt like the writers were just spinning their wheels the whole time, and wasting a bunch of energy on nothing.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's Enterprise, right?
The difference is one of those shows eventually found its footing (making its premature cancellation that much more cruel! )
Any series' that takes 3-4 seasons to "find its footing" has been on way too long, and, by definition, couldn't be "cancelled prematurely." I am no fan of shows getting axed after 1 or 2 episodes, BUT if a series' can't find itself or an audience in 1 or 2 seasons then it needs to go.
Personally, I gave "Enterprise" a season and a half before I stopped watching. Now, I heard from many folks that it started to right itself in its fourth season, but so what? No one can say that ST: ENT wasn't give a fair shot.
The problem, pure and simple, was everyone took Star Trek for granted. They ALL figured if they put something, anything, out there that was set in the Trekverse that all the "trekkies" would go for it in a big way. Even the actors spoke of there association with Enterprise as a windfall which would bring them financial independence.
What surprised them was that the slim majority of Trekkers were discerning and had standards causing them to quickly turn their backs on the lackluster effort known as Enterprise. Sadly, however, there are more than few die-hard fanatics who would watch a dog taking a dump in a forrest every week if you labelled it "Star Trek." The slow leeching Braga & Berman started with Voyager turned into a full blown hemorrhage with Enterprise. And when it was diagnosed as terminal B&B just shrugged their shoulders and walked away. Poor Manny Cotto was left to make the funeral arrangements.
Behind TOS and TNG? Yes, yes it was.
In raw numbers, yes. However, DS9 was the number 1 space-station based sci-fi series in syndication during its run.
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