Borg Origin

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Farrens, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Farrens

    Farrens Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    I know bringing up the Borg is probably asking for trouble, but I recently watched the episode "Unity" and was rather impressed. I felt that this episode presented a possible explanation for the beginnings of the Borg. I had always wondered what it was that took the Borg from what was presumably a single sentient species and turned them into the mechanical monstrosity we see in the current time line. The apparent joy felt by the mini-collective when chakotay was added into the collective shows the beginnings of a hunger that may have eventually overwhelmed and transformed the culture that first gave birth to the mind linking technology.

    But more to the point. I was curious if any other episodes in Voyager or other Star Trek series/movies/novels have shed some light on the early Borg, and of course I'd love to hear all of your thoughts on the topic!
     
  2. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    Thee Olde Spook Shack
    The recent Destiny trilogy goes into the origin of the Borg.

    Of course that is in the novels, and I personally don't really care for that take on it.

    But they're a good read anyway, so you could start there.
     
  3. crouteru

    crouteru Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Location:
    UK
    In Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth", the Vaadwaur scientist Gedrin tells Seven Of Nine that the Borg only held a small number of star systems 900 years prior to that episode. Therefore we can probably assume the Borg Collective has been around for about 1000 years by 2376.

    Star Trek reviewer Jammer said in a blog a few years ago that when he pitched episode ideas for Voyager, he was told not to try and explain the origins of the Borg, so it seems the producers wanted to leave their origins to the viewers imagination.
     
  4. Tallis Rhul

    Tallis Rhul Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Location:
    Rakantha Province
    As previously mentioned, the Borg origins are tackled in the Destiny Trilogy, and there is also a reference to their origin in Star Trek: Legacy (the PC game) - it's an extra on the disc, presented in a video format.

    William Shatner also authored an origin for them I believe, I think it was Rebirth?

    Feel free to shout up if you want spoilers for any of the above. They might make people go blind so I won't post them unless asked ^^
     
  5. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    I tackled Borg history at length in the latest issue of Star Trek Magazine. (It's issue #20, has Patrick Stewart and a drone on the front cover.)

    Yes, Destiny does offer an explanation for the Borg. Without going into great details, certain events about 6,000 years ago gave rise to the Borg.

    However, I think that's also incomplete. Some novels have referred to the Borg as being active as early as two billion years ago. Clearly, both can't be right, can they?

    I think they can work.

    The Borg could simply be a natural evolutionary end to certain humanoid species; throughout time and space, different species merge with their computers, and create something Borg-like. In time, these Borg-like races could come together.

    Or, the Borg pre-existed Destiny's revelations, and whatever was created in Destiny was, ultimately, assimilated into the Borg Collective. Personally, that's the sequence of events that I favor. (Specifically, I believe the Borg Queen arose due to that assimilation; there's evidence in Destiny for that viewpoint.)

    But, if that's so, then what created the Borg?

    Well, I worked out an origin. And it's really, really cool. Unfortunately, I couldn't use it. I hint at it, though. Bioweapons. I think the Borg were a bioweapons project gone horribly wrong, a weapon built for a war that they outlasted.
     
  6. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Eden Prime
    I think Destiny far and away is the best explanation for Borg origin, as well as a gripping tale in its own right. The sense of tragedy and loneliness surrounding the Borg at their initial creation is chilling and beautifully executed.
     
  7. kes7

    kes7 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Location:
    Sector 001
    I kind of wish people wouldn't overthink this. They're the Borg Collective. They've been around for a long time. They're both scary and tragic. Why do we need a detailed explanation of their origins? It's much more fun to have room to speculate, in my opinion.

    I'm more interested in their future than their past, anyway, and from what I've heard about Destiny, I don't like the direction they went with that ... I do admit I haven't read it for myself yet, though.
     
  8. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Location:
    2001 - 2016
    I have to admit that I didn't think I'd like it - I had pretty much concluded the origins of the Borg the minute that the Caeliar ships were sent back in time and when I read the description of the chamber that they used to assimilate people into the gestalt - but I ended up being fascinated by it and it's my favorite origin.

    I never understood the Shatner explanation that V'Ger created the Borg.
     
  9. Farrens

    Farrens Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
     
  10. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2001
    Location:
    2001 - 2016
    ^ The Return.
     
  11. Farrens

    Farrens Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    thanks, I'll have to try and track that one down.
     
  12. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2000
    Location:
    South Pennsyltucky
    That was running with an idea that Roddenberry had voiced (it's cited in the OkudaChron), though it's possible that Roddenberry was joking.

    I don't have a problem with the Borg and Voyager 6 being connected, but the wormhole would have had to have taken Voyager 6 back in time as well, for Vejur to have traveled so far and learned so much. To say nothing of its encounters with Miss Piggy and Darth Vader. :)
     
  13. Tallis Rhul

    Tallis Rhul Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Location:
    Rakantha Province
    Hey, of course they can - don't forget the Borg travelled back in time in First Contact. I'm pretty sure they could do that whenever they wanted, they didn't seem to need any special kit to get it going.

    OK, but be warned that you're probably not going to like what Shatner does with Kirk...
     
  14. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    I'm not too crazy about Trek Lit's interpretation of how the Borg came to be. I have my own idea, I used it in fic. Bottom line is that I think the Borg were a results of technology gone wrong, rather like Harlen Ellison's "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream."

    Brit
     
  15. Farrens

    Farrens Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009

    That's the idea I was getting from Unity. That the mind connecting technology likely started as a wonderful thing, that slowly warped the borg's original culture.
     
  16. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes that's what I was talking about. My concept was the technology was invented to control another species.

    Species one is at war with species two, the drone technology was invented to control species two and stop a war that was devastating to both sides. But making species two drones wouldn't be enough something had to control them.

    Now borrowing some technobabble from the original series, one of the species one scientist recorded his or her memory engrams into some vast central processor. The machine then controlled the Species two drones. A machine, even a thinking one, believes what it is told, in other words the machine would see no flaw in its programming. Its logic could led it to believe the drone status was perfection and turn against its creators and assimilate everyone.

    That part is pretty easy to come up with, the hard part is fitting what we know about the Borg from the appearances on Trek into some kind of logical whole, and if you think about it, even some of the technology that gets complained about in these threads, becomes useful if not essential to the Borg concept.

    An example is the resurrection nanoprobe that Seven used to bring Neelix back from the dead. Lot of fans don't like the concept which is fine but think about this. The process of assimilation in all likelihood caused the individual's bodies to suffer massive shock. It's entirely possible that until the Borg assimilated that technology they lost the vast majority of potential drones who would simply die. We have animals here on Earth that can will themselves dead (guinea pigs is an example). A case can be made that the Borg needed that ability.

    Why would the Borg pick females to control the Collective, because I believe that the job could be done by any drone that was taken young enough and given the "special" programming. But would a machine with the programming to seek perfection see only that the chromosomes of females match up perfectly?

    There are animals on Earth that the chromosome matchup is in the male (birds are an example of this). There may actually be males that could be "Queen" or in the past have been "Queen".

    This is all interesting and like I said, I wrote fic using a lot of it. I listened to the “First Contact” soundtrack a lot to get the mood. It’s posted in the fan fic thread if anyone is interested.

    Brit
     
  17. Oceanborn_angel

    Oceanborn_angel Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    I always thought it would be a kind of nifty TOS tie in to say that the Borg are an end result of the merging of Decker and android Ilia in TMP. If you think about it that would make sense since V'ger had become sentient, but still child-like in its approach. After absorbing Decker's and uploading data about his willingness to do so, V'ger could have erroneously taken that to mean this is ultimately what the creator wanted, inadvertantly creating the Borg. This would also explain in TNG why Q introduced the Federation to the Borg knowing that they were the ones responsible for their creation. Despite his rebellious, mischievous nature, he is still an agent of the Continuum and he basically takes orders from them.
     
  18. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    One little problem Oceanborn angel, per canon the Borg have been active in the Delta Quadrant over 900 years. Voyager episode "Dragon Teeth."

    Brit
     
  19. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Location:
    Eden Prime
    Still fits nicely with the tragic and haunting Destiny origin though ("Dragon Teeth" I mean). :D
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Are you aware of the Grey Goo theory?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo

    I think this is what they're basing the Borg on.
    It was nanotech that was meant to heal them, cure them and keep them "perfect".;) That developed beyond their control and infested the planets population. Believing their superiority(think Romulans now w/ nanoprobes), they went out into the galaxy to "share" perfection.

    I think they might have started off with good intentions to heal other species but the benefits drawn from neural linking might have driven their need to greed.