Borg or Dominion??

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by pimp, Aug 19, 2008.

  1. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In that case, they had Picard, who was supposed to know where the vulnerable spot was somehow, because he was once assimilated.

    I would have loved to have seen a long drawn out battle where they eventually take the Cube down without Picard knowing where to fire.

    That would have had made the movie for me, just by itself.
     
  2. grabthars hammer

    grabthars hammer Captain Captain

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    The Dominion would trounce the Borg, due to my simplistic look at the results of both Borg and Dominion AQ invasion attempts and what it took to defeat each:

    The Dominion: defeated after a massive 3+ year war by a Federation, rebel Cardassian, Klingon and Romulan alliance, with their reinforcements cut off by Gods.

    The Borg: defeated twice by the crew of a single starship: first, because the Borg apparently haven't yet assimilated technology as complex as Norton Antivirus; defeated the second time because their Queen believed an android found her a lot sexier than he really did.
     
  3. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The borg have millions of cubes. The federation repeatedly proved it can barely handle one at a time.
    The dominion went all out and were defeated by the federation.

    The borg, if they so wished, could squish the dominion, the federation or anyone else as if an insect.
     
  4. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know, but that's still really dumb. It still establishes that if people know where to aim (all they have to do is ask old johnny), they can all just shoot in the same place and 5 seconds later the whole cube blows up. All of a sudden the villain is reduced from nearly invulnerable force to a joke.
     
  5. G2309

    G2309 Captain Captain

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    I'm sure the founders can sneak aboard and infect the Borg with the latest malware which is all it seems to take to defeat the collective.
    I prefer the dominion as an enemy though, they're both powerful and scheming.
     
  6. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wasn't Voyager just as far from the Wormhole as it was from Federation space? That indicates that the Dominion is far from the Borg.
     
  7. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Yea, it was about the same distance either way, it seems. Some map positionings seem to show The wormhole a bit closer, and others seem to show it a bit further
     
  8. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If you just go by TNG series borg, I'd say borg win, no contest.
    If you include voyager and first contact, i'm pretty sure the tribbles could beat the borg... So dominion wins.

    the dominion are lucky they werent popular enough to have had a crappier tv show and a dumb movie weaken the hell out of them.
     
  9. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree. Trek can come up with some great ideas, but later add things that just nearly ruins the entire concept.

    Picard knowing where to fire was an easy out so they could get to the time travel part of the story.

    It was the start of Trek making the Borg weaker, until Voyager came in and did even more damage.

    It would be an interesting war to say the least.

    The Dominion can breed and replace Jem hadar by the thousands in a matter of days, but the Borg may already have millions of Cubes.

    And assimilating millions of people for them only takes minutes.

    The Dominion can rapidly build huge fleets of ships so that they can wear the enemy down no matter how well they fight.

    But the Borg can regenerate their ships, so they hardly ever get destroyed to begin with.

    And (just a guess) each cube is about two times the size of their biggest ship.

    The Dominion would spend a huge number of ships just to possibly defeat a single Borg Cube-- ultimately the Borg would wear the Dominion down.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  10. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Borg no question, though for long time villains I much prefer the Dominion.

    Twice single cubes have attacked Federation space, twice only stopped due to not the technology of the Federation in any way, but the being Locutus and his connection to the collective (in First Contact I thought Picard could just detect where the ship was actually really damaged at, not a hidden weak spot , like the Death Star), so it means first a battle would have to develop enough to have a weak spot develop, and then have someone who is connected to the collective hear where that is, and still have enough forces around to damage that enough to destroy the ship.

    On VOyager we see the Borg get defeated by an extra dimensional threat, we see a cube get destroyed thinks to the actions of a hybrid drone from 29th century Federation tech and Borg technology. Voyager was capable of taking out a cube that was so damaged that only 4 or 5 early stage drones were left (out of tens of thousands), We say Voyager use first hand Borg knowledge, and Fed science to avoid destruction, but it was the collapse of the transwarp corridor that destroyed the Borg following them, not the weapons of the Federation. I honestly can't remember Unimatrix One, parts I or two so don't know how Voyager survived, and finally Voyager using future technology, was able to destroy a Hub, and the various other ships.

    Which was really the only time I can remember them actually doing real damage to the Borg. Besides a small scout ship. That scout Ship was the only functional Borg vessel modern Federation technology was able to destroy on its own, I believe.

    Just because Voyager survived, long after it should have been destroyed, didn't mean m Voyager was able to actually seriously damage the Borg, they were just able to flee fast enough away from them (in some cases by Borg science, by Kes' massive abilities, ect.
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    With regards to FC I agree with the above poster that the issue wasn't a design flaw in the Borg ship, it's that Picard's connection to the collective allowed him to realize that this particular Borg ship had a particular vulnerability in that time and place. Given another minute the Borg likely would have had it taken care of.
     
  12. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Remember back in TNG when Borg Cubes dwarfed the massive Enterprise-D? Then in VOY they were significant;y reduced in size. Yeah what happened to them? With First Contact you have to remember the Borg had been battling the Federation ships for 3 and a half hours before the ENT-E showed. Data's admission that at max warp for the Enterprise from the Neutral Zone it would take 3 hours and 25 minutes to reach Earth. The Borg had been slaughtering the Fed ships left and right as we can see from the brief fight. Several ships blown up or being blown up, and DS9's great Defiant on fire and left powerless and adrift right when the Enterprise arrived.

    If the battle was TNG Borg vs the Dominion you gotta give it to the Borg. Massive casualties for the opposing side with only one cube. If we use VOY Borg then we could see something like 2 dozen Borg cubes effortlessly blown up by the Dominion like Species 8472 did in VOY Scorpion. While Sisko praying to the Prophets to wish away an entire Dominon fleet left a bad taste in my mouth, I curse VOY for ruining the Borg.
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Dominion are a more finite race than the Borg. The Borg keep making more Borg and can ramp that up any time.
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That weak point wasn't always there, it was a temporary weak point that had developed during the battle from all the other damage the Cube had taken. No other Borg ship would be destroyed via the "focus on one spot" tactic.
     
  15. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Edit- sorry, damn ive been double posting by accident a lot lately
     
  16. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then the movie did a bad job of pointing that out.

    It just seemed like "Picard shows up, knows where to shoot, and in two seconds borg cube blows up"

    If what you say is true, then they could have explained it in one simple line
     
  17. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard asked for a damage report on the Cube, so he could ascertain how bad off it was. After hearing they were having problems with the power grid (which would include their adaptive shields) he used his residual link to the Collective to overhear what they were saying. It was only after this he ordered them to target that one area.

    Taken together, this means that Picard figured the damaged power grid might mean shield failure and then when he tapped into the Collective he overheard something that confirmed his suspicions and he also overheard exactly where the shields had failed and knew where the firepower should be concentrated.
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't even think Picard heard the status of the Borg ship via the Collective intentionally.
     
  19. Luminus

    Luminus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Borg whispering isn't intentional on Picard's part. It's automatic, whenever the collective is near.
     
  20. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Beverly removed all the Borg implants (did she?), what was Picard using to hear the whispering?

    :)