"Beware the Batman" in 2013! New Animated Series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Admiral_Young, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. Nick Ryder

    Nick Ryder Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well let's compare - here's Magpie's original mid 80s look that she had in Man of Steel - I think Issue 3 or 4 when Byrne's rebooted Superman met Batman for the first time

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    This is her BtB look

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    Looks a tad more fetish-istic buuuuut given what the original looked like - kinda same lines save for the weird hair - although she looks far closer to a wannabe Lady Deathstrike than Magpie who's trick was sticking dynamite in her goon's mouths. When she gets... weird

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  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^It was issue 3. Oh, and that triple-mohawk hairstyle turns out to be a wig, which Superman pulls off to reveal a full head of medium-short, wavy blond hair -- but the removed wig isn't drawn with any indication that it's attached to a bald cap. It doesn't really make a lot of sense, so I certainly don't object to the revised wig here.

    And the original Magpie's repertoire did include the long, poison-tipped finger spikes, or at least one of them. What's omitted from the above excerpt is that she used one to paralyze the henchman before playing "Happy Birthday" with him.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Here's an interview with the BtB producers and stars, explaining a lot of the reasoning behind the show's creative choices:

    http://comicsalliance.com/beware-the-batman-interviews-sdcc-2013/

    Note that Mitch Watson is wearing a Miskatonic t-shirt. As if there were any doubt that he's a Lovecraft fan.

    Apparently the reason for going with Katana is that "they didn’t want us to do Robin at the moment." I assume that means Cartoon Network. Maybe that's because Teen Titans Go! features Robin and they don't want to duplicate him.

    And they're going to be building up to something with Barbara Gordon, but it's not what everyone's guessing online. I assume everyone's guessing she'll become Batgirl -- so is it possible they'll be skipping that and going straight to Oracle? That could be intriguing, although a teenage Oracle has the potential to be a bit cliched.

    And each episode takes up to a year to complete. Wow. If it's that difficult, I'm surprised the networks are willing to do 3D-animated shows.

    And Len Wein will be writing for the show, as well as Greg Weisman!

    Also, Lady Shiva will be one of the villains. That's got potential. She was kind of a major antagonist/ally for a while, certainly playing a key role in Tim Drake's backstory. As I recall, she's just about the world's greatest martial artist and one of both Batman and Tim/Robin's principal trainers, but she's in a moral gray area and works with villains too.

    I'm intrigued by what Ruivivar (I'm finally spelling his name right) has to say about Bruce/Batman dealing with the duality, compartmentalizing his two selves and the toll that takes on him.
     
  4. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    A year?! How long have they been working on this series, then?
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Since The Brave and the Bold ended in late 2011, at least. As the article says, they typically have five episodes in production at any one time, overlapping.

    What worries me is that with such lead time, the show would have to get a renewal order very early in the airing of one season in order to get the next season on the air in a timely fashion. Certainly BtB has made an impressive debut, so I don't think we have to worry much, but I hope the renewal comes soon enough that we don't have to wait until something like late 2014 for the second season.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    I imagine as with Young Justice, we'll get two seasons and if toy sales don't catch on we won't get a third.
     
  7. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Commodore Commodore

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    That was an...interesting article. I really wouldn't call BTB "cinematic", unless cinematic means average CG cartoon (I've never been impressed by a cgi cartoon, but even SW: The Clone wars looks better than BTB). Also, this quote (from Glen Murakami) was hilarious

    Professor Pyg is about as iconic as Polka Dot man, and not nearly as funny an idea. As for the barbara Gordon stuff, I'm guessing she'll be a supervillain. I already said that, but if she's not batgirl, and these guys want to do the exact opposite of all the good batman shows, I'm betting they make her a villain. This quote (from Mitch Watson) was almost as funny as the first quote, but for different reasons

    I doubt appealing to Batman fans ever crossed anyone's minds, and if Watson really considers himself a Batman fan, i'd hate to see what he'd do to Batman if he hated him :vulcan: I don't know what to think about them. They don't seem like bad guys, they're just not very good at making a Batman show. That's not a crime, its just unfortunate that they're the ones who get to make the show. This interview did not fill me with confidence. I do believe they like what they're doing, I just don't think that they want to do Batman, so they're not. They're doing their own hero and just using the names and one or two somewhat similar elements from a popular DC hero. I was hoping the show would increase in quality as it went on, going from passable to something good or even great. After this interview, that seems less likely. I'll keep watching and hope for a miracle. Right now its atleast better than the first two seasons of The Batman (not that it takes much effort to be better than that) and its definately watchable, unlike TT Go!, but its done nothing to impress me or be anything other than just another superhero show.

    So far, its had the generic eco terrorist (except without any real motivation or backstory) and mentally unhinged villain cliches. They weren't bad, but they have been done a lot better (and Poison Ivy/Two Face fit the roles better than Pyg/Magpie). I guess they want new villains, but not unique stories to go with them. I'd complain less if the stories/villains were actually doing something different/better than normal Batman stuff. But, the main stories of these episodes have just been generic Batman villain stories. The only changes are in some of the b-plots, and action hero alfred/fake Katana are not improvements. If they want to be "unique", they could atleast not make episodes intended for the bigger villains and then just shoehorn in badly redesigned z-list villains.

    Also, I'm not too excited about seeing Lady Shiva. She was interesting in the comics, so that means they'll do the exact opposite. She'll probably be an alien from an obscure alien planet that appeared in one comic back in the silver age. Or maybe she'll be martha wayne in disguise, raised from the dead. Those two scenario's are obviously just me being an ass, she'll most likely just be a very generic martial arts villain. They could atleast stick to lesser known villains I don't like.

    Maybe the show will start to convince me its not just something different, but something good enough to exist. I want to be convinced. I'll keep watching. Worst case scenario, I spend 20-22 minutes every week being somewhat entertained by a forgettable show. I hope it becomes more than that.
     
  8. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    You're still stuck on this idea that you're the only type of Batman fan that can be targeted and to which the show should appeal. The show must appeal to casual fans like me, not rabid fans like you, else the intended audience would be too small to bother making the show.
     
  9. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Commodore Commodore

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    I get that, but if B:TAS, Batman: Brave and the Bold and even seasons 3-5 of The Batman can appeal to me, I'm not that hard to please. I'm not saying i'm the only kind of fan, I just don't think making a show that is almost nothing like batman is really meant to appeal to Batman fans. Kind of like how Teen titans Go! in no way appeals to fans of the old Teen Titans show.
     
  10. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    The fan base won't grow if changes aren't tried. It's show business, and businesses must grow to make money. You don't like BtB, fine, so one viewer is lost, but if 50 people who wouldn't have watched B:TAS watch BtB, then there's still net growth of the audience.
     
  11. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Commodore Commodore

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    Whose to say it will get any new fans? Besides which, why would you use a pre existing property but not take advantage of it? Why make a Batman show thats not even really batman? This show will get one season, 2 at most, and then it will be gone. If even Young Justice can't make it, a generic cgi Batman cartoon won't, even with batman's popularity. I don't hate the show, or even particularly dislike it. The first two episodes kept my attention and were entertaining, they were just nothing special (not counting some of the different side elements, but action hero alfred/Fake Katana aren't bad enough to become memorably bad, they're just stuid). Being forgettable can be worse than being horrible, from a viewers perspective. Atleast the really bad stuff is usually memorable.
     
  12. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    Damn, you must be a real killjoy at parties, man.
     
  13. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How is this not really Batman?
    Guy in a Batsuit, whose parents were killed.
    Bruce Wayne
    Alfred
    Katana
    Professor Pyg--a Batman villain from the comics
    Magpie--a Batman villain from the comics
    A Batmobile
    A Batcave
    A Batcomputer
    A Batman who is investigating
    Gordon being Gordon...

    How is this "not even really Batman?" This is MORE like the contemporary version of Batman than Brave and the Bold--which I love.

    I get that you don't like this version, but to say it's "not even really Batman" is just plain silly hyperbole. Even for the internet.
     
  14. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. That is just a really bizarre argument to make. And even if it may not break much new ground story-wise, the tone and storytelling style is still MUCH closer to BTAS than any of the other Batman cartoons they've made since.
     
  15. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I could see making an arguments about the choices, like Alfred being more mentor, gruff, less gentlemanly... I do miss the "Master Bruce" or the stylization of the animation, or whatever... but to say it's not really Batman... that's insane. It's Batman just like all of the other incarnations.
     
  16. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Some info from Comic-Con:



    For episode two did anyone notice the old Bat phone ring? When Bruce presses his watch to alert Alfred it's the old 60's bat phone ring.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RjE4R_Rrf1c#t=779s
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    He's accumulating quite a DC repertoire. Jonah Hex, Hal Jordan, Rick Flagg, Superman, Parasite, now Metamorpho.

    Maybe that recurring "A" symbol doesn't just stand for "Argus Club."

    Hmm... supports my thought that maybe they're going to turn Barbara into Oracle. Hmm... maybe in this version it's Ra's that paralyzes Babs rather than the Joker?


    Excellent.


    Top five male villain with a D... only one who fits is Edward Nygma, aka the Riddler. Unless we've been spelling "the Djoker" wrong all these years... (Ooh... suddenly I want Enver Djokaj to play the Joker!)


    Yup, I mentioned that the other day.
     
  18. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Commodore Commodore

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    I really don't get the comparison to B:TAS. I mean, its a show with Batman in the title, and its not goofy silver age style fun like B&TB or anything, but thats pretty much the end of the comparison. The Batman is more like B:TAS than BTB is. The Batman had Robin, Batgirl, Alfred as a butler, and tha lot of the classic Batman rogues gallery (even if most of the designs weren't very good). There were a lot of differences, but still more similarities between them than BTB and B:TAS. As for a show being about batman, I need more than a guy in a Batman suit to call something a Batman show. Obviously it is technically a Batman show, but if you changed the costume and the characters names it could be any random superhero. Outside of names and cosmetic stuff it just doesn't feel too much like batman. Its hard to get more specific, but none of the characters feel right, and thats probably one of the biggest reasons it doesn't feel like batman to me. They decided they didn't like any familiar Batman stuff, so it just comes off as an average tv show that happens to use the Batman franchise, and not very well.
     
  19. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Beware the Batman, not only has Batman, but Alfred, Gordon, Barbara Gordon, Katana--who has long been associated with Batman, and villains that are also associated with Batman... so, I really don't understand this particular criticism. The show literally features the same characters that have appeared in almost every other Batman franchise...
    Like what? More of the same tradition characters that have appeared? Is that it?

    Really? So any random hero has his parents killed which motivates him to be a hero to save his broken down city, operates out of his mansion, has a butler who aides him on his war on crime, drives a car that resembles his costume, and has a strange rogues gallery that all seem motivated by madness... That basically ONLY describes Batman. What other super hero has those details?

    What SPECIFICALLY doesn't feel like Batman to you?

    SIGH.

    An example would be nice. Bruce seems to be acting like Bruce. Gordon like Gordon. Alfred... yeah... this is certainly a newer version of him... But that's one out of the 4 major actors acting a little different.

    The batcave, the batsuit, the batbelt, the batcar, Alfred, Wayne Manor, Gotham, Gordon, Barbara Gordon, Katana... yeah... they don't like ANY of the familiar Batman stuff. :rolleyes:

    Besides the same ole same ole rogues gallery, what "familiar" Batman stuff is missing?

    Listen, I get that you don't like it, and that's cool. You don't have to watch. But to say it's NOT Batman because they aren't using "familiar" Batman stuff... that just doesn't make sense on the face of it.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Actually Gordon's different from the usual portrayal too, because he sees Batman as an adversary rather than an ally.

    But as Murakami says, the whole point is to do Batman in a way that's not just the same old stories we've had before. It's a different take on Batman and his world, taking the familiar basics but going in new directions with them. This is Batman, same as always, but he's a young Batman who's still wrestling with balancing the two sides of his identity. This is Alfred, Bruce's loyal servant and father figure who happens to have a military-intelligence background, but with that part of his character shifted more into the forefront than it's usually been before. This is Jim Gordon, the good cop and loving father, but he hasn't yet learned to trust Batman. This is Gotham, the dark and dangerous city full of maniacs, but they're not the same old maniacs we've seen a million times before. And all of those differences from what we've seen before are what make it interesting.

    For what it's worth, The Batman was the screen debut for a few characters too, including Black Mask, the Basil Karlo Clayface, a version of Cluemaster, Gearhead, Rag Doll, and Wrath, while its character of Ellen Yin was loosely based on Ellen Yindel from Batman: Year One and later comics.
     

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