Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Crazyewok, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    I am not a fan of character death, in fact I hate it, it is a lazy way to motivate other characters.
     
  2. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard and Kirk had the same thing happen to them, they handled it okay.
     
  3. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    Not for a protracted period of time.

    Voyager should not have been the squeaky clean federation ship.

    It should have had supply problems, been upgrading itself with alien tec. The whole ship should have looked different than when it started. In BSG they had the ship literally falling apart by the end. Seeing as they did not have federation outposts and starbases to have maintince they should have had the same problem! Even the Ent D had to go in for maintince every few years.


    If they wanted to be TNG: 2.0 then why bother with delta quadrant setting? They could of just been on a long range deep space mission in the Alpha quadrant!

    Series 1&2 plus the year of hell episode was the only time I brought into that setting.
     
  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I understand that. As many of you here know, I was very angry and upset when Kes was dumped and I still haven't forgiven those in charge for that.
     
  5. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    There is nothing wrong with change per say. Change can be a good thing. But the opposite is also true it can be a bad thing. It's about finding the right balance. Sometimes change comes off as change for changes sake.
     
  6. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    It worked on Doctor Who, when Adric was killed off...

    But they had a combination of Medusan navigational skillz and magic!
     
  7. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So they got home sooner. That there was precedent for this sort of stuff shows that this shouldn't have affected morale much, at least not for a few years.

    Moya from Farscape was in a similar situation, and that ship never needed upgrades and all that stuff. And it was a living ship, yet we never saw the crew have to "feed" it to keep it going.

    The Galactica was already a retired vessel that wasn't in good shape to begin with.

    And anyways, it had similar problems to Voyager in that they only ever had ONE weapons restock the entire series and yet that lasted them the whole series.

    That's the problem, they wrote something into the premise of the show (no support) that they didn't really think out. The ship really wouldn't have survived without any support but they'd have to violate the premise to do anything, which meant they were screwed no matter WHAT they did.

    I agree, but for different reasons. They should've had more DQ aliens in the crew to give us connection to the DQ and flesh out the area more instead of running away from everything.

    In Farscape, most of the cast were from the area of space the show was set in so there was plenty of connection. VOY had none of that and thus wasted the DQ setting by having no connection to it.
     
  8. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why does every death have to be heroic? To please the fans? Because if that's the rationale, then there are fans who are displeased by that theory.

    I don't really remember anyone being upset by Yar's death, though the internet back then wasn't what it is today.

    Anyway, so what if some fans are upset? There's nothing TPTB can do that's going to please everyone, especially if they want to take significant risks, and in my opinion they should focus less on pleasing the fans and more on writing good stories, and if a good story necessitates a character suffering a pointless death, then so be it. I certainly have a lot more respect for a Pointless Death then a Miraculous Survival.

    Hell, if the happiness of fans was the overriding priority then the last two movies wouldn't have happened...and say whatever you want about them, at least they made Star Trek something people talk about again.

    I think it can easily be argued that one of the best episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer involved the pointless death of a major character.
     
  10. delenn13

    delenn13 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think they should have renamed it....Star Trek:The Many Ways We Can Kill Harry Kim and Bring Him Back
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Sometimes you get a bad story with a pointless death. So is it a case with a great story sometimes the audiance is willing to overlook a pointless death?
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I assume you mean the portion of the audience that generally takes issue with pointless deaths?

    If an episode has a bad story I'll knock it for the bad story.

    I think a factor may be whether someone's looking for an arc-based series or a generally more episodic one. While Voyager certainly had some story arcs, it also had a whole lot of episodic content.
     
  13. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    I can see why the stories deteriorated and the writers and producers seemed to lose interest.
    They were so caught up in playing safe (not necessarily killing off main cast) so as not to upset a few oversensitive hard core fans they cornered themselves in a box.

    If the Writers were allowed of there leash abit they may have been able to keep the franchise fresh.


    Instead we get TNG 2:00 and with ENT TNG 3:00. At least ENT came into its own on series 4.

    Thats the problem each series should have its own direction and personality.

    Its why DS9 and TNG have so much staying power 20 years later.
     
  14. Kathy Kringle

    Kathy Kringle Commodore Commodore

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    I get very attached to my fictional characters so NO! :(
     
  15. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    I dont think the heavy episodic approach worked for voyager.

    I dont think it should have been as serilised as DS9 but it should have had some more episode cross over with character development.
     
  16. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    As has akready been debated ad infinitum the premise of VOY seemed to lend itself to a more serialised based show, the producers in their infnite wisdom decided to lean towards episodic.

    Was it the right approach, we'll never know.
     
  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It wouldn't have hurt to have a deeper secondary cast and kill them off once in a while like they did in the first two seasons.

    Killing off main cast, the problem with that is they always predictably kill off the least gimmicky characters. Sure in Voyager that would have been Chakotay and Kim which might not have been a bad thing, but in general it's lame when they do that. Once in a while a dramatic MC death might have worked, but not frequently.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unless you are a show where people die all the time. But that's not Star Trek.
     
  19. Kathy Kringle

    Kathy Kringle Commodore Commodore

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    I'm one of those people who are stunned and sad when anyone on a main cast or even recurring cast dies. I cried when Jadzia died even though I knew the real reason was because Terry Farrell left the show. Still...I hated that!! I also cried when Ziyal got killed. :(

    When they killed off Janeway in the novels I was furious. But then they brought her back and had her hook up with Chakotay so I was happy about that.

    They wouldn't be able to just bring a dead person back on a series like this though. Although they did with Lindsey Ballard but she wasn't main cast anyway.
     
  20. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since it's Star Trek you can always bring back anyone with magic super aliens.