Better if they had allowed main cast to die?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Crazyewok, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What's "wrong" about it? Was it wrong to kill Ben Kenobi in Star Wars? Was it wrong to kill Boromir in LotR? Was it wrong to kill any of the innumerable characters in Lost who died?

    These people are in extreme circumstances, and I think there's a valid argument that what's "wrong" is painting the situation as though everyone "important" is going to come through it unharmed. Though God help you if your name isn't in the main credits.
     
  2. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    DS9 was about an interstellar war, yet the only main cast member who died was killed off only because of a contract dispute not because they WANTED to get rid of her. If not for that, NO ONE in the main cast would've died.

    Which is a lot sillier than a ship on an extended deep-space mission having it's crew survive.
     
  3. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    1.>I Never said serialisation was in style just that a part of the aduiance wanted it, and by the mid-ninties it was starting to shift toward serialised shows.

    If you read a book and in chapter 7, the writer tells you they don't have this and it magically appears in chapter 14, the reader will go, what! where did that come from. At it's core visual media is not much different from print media in how it should tell it's story.

    As for the EMH back-up module it magically appeared one episode, despite being said they didn't have a way to back-up the EMH just episodes before. They then can never construct another one. No reason given for why they suddenly have one, and no reason given for why they can't built another one.

    The Borg started to go downhill in TNG esp. around the two-parter "Descent"

    Surely some of those who critise VOY feel it could have been better if they paid attention to some of these details. If you note I said it was one of VOY better episodes and Robert Picardo was one of the best things about VOY. SO I can praise something but that doesn't preclude me from levelling critisim at something where I think they could have and should have done better.
     
  4. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't common enough, if they'd waited until 2000 then it would be and they'd also have had enough time to hire new writers and work out VOY's conceptual problems (it had some).

    If chapter 14 took places years after chapter 7, then it'd be easier to believe that they found this "something" and then said chapter also explains why they didn't have it in the present via flashback (lost in an attack) then there's your explanation.

    It's fancy future tech they couldn't easily replicate. They did, once, and then lost it (explained in the episode) and then couldn't make another one because...Hey! It's fancy future tech!

    And yet everyone blames VOY and never TNG.

    The point is, folks take the minor petty things and see ONLY that and don't care about any of the good. Because the bad is all that matters.

    If they really liked that episode, then they wouldn't care much about the backup thing and just enjoy the episode. Instead they complain and complain and ruin it all.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That DS9 has the same fault VOY has doesn't make it not a fault.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He was old, real old. It was a tiny bit wrong to kill off Qui Gon though because he was a great character and much hotter than most of Star Wars.
    No because Tolkien did it 48 years before the film came out.
    That was the only thing that kept that show remotely interesting.

    And really, the question to be asking here is "Was it wrong to kill Kirk?"
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2013
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But what do you base this on? Blogs? Friends? This forum?
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re Boromir, why are you assuming I'm talking about the film rather than the book?

    I disagree with regards to Lost, but oh well.

    It wasn't wrong to kill Kirk...the idea merited consideration, it was the execution that was somewhat lacking...but even then at least what we got was better than what we might have gotten.

    Anyway, "wrong" is a silly word to use in this case.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    True about the wrong.

    And I assumed you meant the films with Boromir because of all the obvious reasons. As to whether it was okay to kill him in the books, sure. It's not like anyone missed him.
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, the main thrust of my argument was that while some people may find it "disagreeable" to kill a main character, "wrong" isn't, IMO at least, an appropriate term.

    I'm sure there are people who missed Boromir after he died. Given his failure with regards to the ring and his subsequent attempt to redeem himself, I would have been curious to see how his character might have developed if he'd had the opportunity.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course it's a mark of a good character that people get upset at their death in the first place.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I'm upset that Kim was born.

    Bookends.
     
  13. Stoo

    Stoo Captain Premium Member

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    Why? Why would Voyager get this treatment and not earlier trek shows?
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jealousy.
     
  15. Stoo

    Stoo Captain Premium Member

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    Well I am quite jealous of Tom Paris' good looks and easygoing charm.

    I'm just trying to figure out where Anwar's got this perception of Voyager somehow being unfairly maligned.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I had the revelation one day while in the ENT forum that there are no hot men on Voyager, NONE. You have to go ENT for that. It's sad, but I've learned to live with it.

    (Some are kind of pleasant to look at, like a nice lamp.)
     
  17. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Earlier Trek shows are just as guilty of this, yet they get none of the venom Voyager does.

    Folks were just out to give VOY a hard time as soon as it started, I don't know why.
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Citations Needed.
     
  19. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Change for Change's sake is NEVER a good thing.
     
  20. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Except it wasn't change for change's sake, it was change because the franchise as it was had died.
     

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