Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by KlingonPredator, Jan 14, 2009.

?

Best tactician?

  1. Kirk

    26.7%
  2. Picard

    9.5%
  3. Sisko

    54.3%
  4. Janeway

    9.5%
  1. KlingonPredator

    KlingonPredator Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Each have their strengths but also weaknesses. to me, my list is as follows:

    1. Sisko: Fought the Dominion War and won. nuff said.

    2. Janeway: Got her ship back from the Delta Quadrant facing several enemies with no support from home.

    3. Kirk: Fought the Enterprise well in several encounters but made a huge tactical error in TWOK which could have doomed him fatally.

    4. Picard: Fought the D and E well but lacks the killer instinct to move up the ladder.

    Allright give me your list and I can expound on my reasoning if you wish.
     
  2. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd say Sisko. If Spock were up there, it'd be a hard call, and Picard did alright with that whole tachyon grid scenario where Data commanded a ship. But still, probably Sisko.
     
  3. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Picard Maneuver - nuff said
     
  4. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not saying that he's the best tactician, but there's Jonathan Archer in this poll?
     
  5. black_dranzer

    black_dranzer Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It depends on the context in which you're using "tactician" - there's a lot of difference between commanding a fleet in battle and commanding a single ship in battle. I'd have to say that Sisko is the best tactician in terms of fleet battling (after all, Starfleet Command did assign him to plan the invasion of Cardassia, and Operation Return was also his plan), however to be honest I'd say that Janeway would be a contender for individual ship battles - she seems to have a tendancy to think outside the box when she's up against a superior force (e.g the Kazon-Nistrim fleet in "Basics" - IMO Voyager would have won that battle if it weren't for the Kazon sabateur messing up the ship halfway through).

    There's also the question of ground combat - not sure why, but my gut says that Kirk would be the best, tactically speaking, at ground combat.
     
  6. HRHTheKING

    HRHTheKING Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  7. kv1at3485

    kv1at3485 Commodore Commodore

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    I haven't been impressed by any of them.

    I can't see how Sisko performed any better than the rest: his "tactics" during the war weren't any better than the rest. There was nothing innovative there, just more of the same "smack head on wall".
     
  8. hammerhead

    hammerhead Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Surely it's Riker, I think it was stated in that wargames episode of TNG that Riker on the Hathaway, a 70 year old ship or something, could beat Picard on the brand new Enterprise D. In that episode they said that Riker does the unexpected like 99% of the time. Also you have the Riker maneuver in Insurrection against the Sona who were Dominion allies so he seems the best at original thinking and tactics.
     
  9. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No question, it was Captain John Harriman.

    "All engines full reverse!!"

    The guy was a genius.
     
  10. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :guffaw:

    You make a compelling case. I wish to change my vote. :D
     
  11. skeeter291

    skeeter291 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    All the other Captains have done a great job but Sisko had to run a war. That puts him over the top.
     
  12. 2 of 10

    2 of 10 Captain Captain

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    Agreed, Prosecuting a war is never an easy task. Espically the Dominion war, when at time the Dominion had superior numbers, he got the Romulans into the war "In the Pale Moonlight" just in time. Admiral Ross needed his help and gave command of the Defient to Jadzia, all Capt's in Trek did really great things and some not so great things, this also goes for Sisko, however, my vote also goes to Sisko.
     
  13. Anika Hanson

    Anika Hanson Captain Captain

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    I'd say Janeway. The other captains tactics were mostly based on consideration of ideas put forward by other senior officers and then a plan would be formulated based on these. Janeway however seemed to be quite knowlegable on the technical side of things (which led to her being called a know it all) she often formulated a lot of plans herself. So I'd say Janeway.
     
  14. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You're kidding, right? Show me one example where Archer actually used tactics...
     
  15. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    No, I'm not kidding. And like I already stated, I'm not saying that Archer is the best tactician. I also can't recite a specific moment where he used or devised tactics. Then again, neither do I think that Janeway is the best tactician nor can I recite a specific moment where Janeway used or devised tactics. But she's included in this poll. And righfully so, I think. Got my point?
     
  16. kv1at3485

    kv1at3485 Commodore Commodore

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    Sisko didn't run the war. He was a tactical commander who, by merit of his billet, had a bit more say with the admirals in the operational planning of the theatre he was attached to.

    Getting the Romulans into the war, and convincing the Prohpets to wave their hand, had nothing to do with his tactical skills.

    The only time we see Sisko with, perhaps, major authority over the fleet is in Operation Return. (The rest of those big flashy dumbfests he's either always acting as an advisor to the admirals/generals commanding the fleet or just being a plain old starship captain.) And I can't say Operation Return makes he think: "Hey, he's a much better tactician than s0-and-so..."
     
  17. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He got Mayweather to pull an L7 in The Expanse. Where's my prize? :p
     
  18. Semah

    Semah Commander Red Shirt

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    Star Trek isn't the most tactical universe. It's a lot of "Attack Pattern Omega"s and what not. The closest I can come up with for interesting tactics is Kirk's 3 dimentional thinking in the Mutara Nebula and Janeway's seeming knowledge of her own plot immunity.
     
  19. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    hard saying, as they were rarely challenged, and when they did, yeah, it was just lay in attack pattern X!

    Sisko will win, but only because he was shown in more war situations (that, and DS9 being the favorite on the board). Who else was shown in enough of those situations to even compare?

    Janeway held her own in a fight. Picard has tactical classes named after his innovative thinking. Kirk was so good that an entire species decided that you weren't a real warrior until you had fought Kirk in battle. Archer even held his own despite usually being far outclassed.

    On the other hand, Sisko also lost his ship. Picard as well (Stargazer, E-D doesn't count, he wasn't aboard). Janeway and Archer arrived at the end of the series with the original ships, and Kirk only lost his because he had a crew of 5 and lost the automation. Points off for Sisko and Picard there.

    Anyway, don't think you can make much of a judgement here, and you don't ever see them all in similar situations, other than in ship-vs-ship battles, and in those cases, they all seemed to do just fine, and were all decent. Worst of that group is probably Picard, as they mostly just sat and absorbed a few shots, then fired once...
     
  20. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's a toss up between Picard and Sisko.

    Picard has already a tactical maneuver named after him and Sisko was an accomplished military mind who got (deservedly) much credit for ending the Dominion War.

    Picard is a diplomat first but he is experienced and sly enough to know not to show his entire hand and have backup plans in case he needs them. He's quick on his mind and able to improvise should he have to.. it will be very hard to beat him in any case.

    Sisko is good at the strategic and tactical level.. able to lead an entire fleet as well as a single ship. He is not afraid to make the hard choices when he has to and he's able to see and call a bluff.

    Kirk is to emotional for me to be a really good tactician.. he's far to prone to use blunt force to win and sometimes that's not the best way to go. He's a bit like Patton.. capable and a legend but gotten there over too many bodies.

    Janeway i don't know.. she surely can stand on her own and she's highly intelligent. To be honest i'd rate her middle class but being Starfleet that middle class may be top tier for many other organizations. Since i think Voyager was badly written many times, i.e. too ridiculous odds against the Voyager but she still wins the day it is hard to truly judge her.

    As has been said Riker is overlooked.. he's easily one of the best officers Starfleet has and only recently got his own ship. He's very smart, quick wits and he rarely plays by the book and likes to improvise (to great success). That makes him a brilliant tactician and given a bit more time will easily fill the shoes of Picard and maybe make his own impression on Starfleet.
     

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