Best and worst examples of diplomacy in Star Trek

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by The Overlord, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think if that was the case, the Dominion War wouldn't have ended with the Battle of Cardassia.
    I have to disagree with all that. Closing the wormwhole would have been an excellent strategy. If the wormhole had been closed at the first sign of trouble, it really would have saved a lot of lives from being lost and it also would have given the Federation an incentive to stay out of the Dominion's way should they have ultimately reached the Gamma Quadrant on their own many decades later. In such a situation, first contact with the Dominion would have been a case of perhaps only one Federation ship exploring the Gamma Quadrant rather than a massive colonization movement (which they perceived as an invasion force) suddenly on their doorstep.

    It seemed as if the Dominion's primary motive for launching an offensive upon the Federation was based on a fear that the Federation had come to the Gamma Quadrant to invade their territory and conquer them. Indeed, the first Jem'Hadar commander we saw gave our heroes a warning to stay out of the Gamma Quadrant, an idea that was dismissed by our heroes out of hand and one that the Dominion knew would be.
    It was really a case of the Founders lashing out after being persecuted by solids for untold ages. They established the Dominion to create a nation where they would no longer have anything to fear from solids. The Karemma, actually flourished under Dominion rule while more resistant races didn't. The Dosi weren't actually members of the Dominion, but had some sort of trade relationship with it, suggesting that not every race the Dominion encountered was conquered.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Gorn didn't want some land, they were repelling what they considered invaders from their land.

    I've never understood this idea that since the Federation likes to explore they should be able to roll into others space without repercussions.
     
  3. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The problem isn't that the Federation likes to explore or the Gorn want the Federation off their land. The problem is that no one in Trek seems to think putting out some sort of probes declaring XYZ is part of their territory is a good idea or if they're not going to do that, have some ships stop by before the Federation makes colonies there and is justifiably pissed that their people were murdered by aliens who put no claim on a planet.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps they should put some effort into exploring the territory around said planet before dropping off people on the edge of known space?
     
  5. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They probably did and found no signs saying "This is Gorn/Dominion territory - GTFO". After all, space is big and unless you leave some sign of ownership on a planet, it's not hard to see why people would think an uninhabited planet is free for the taking.
     
  6. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think both sides screwed up with The Dominion first contact debacle. As stated earlier, Starfleet should have investigated the territory around that colony before they allowed anyone to settle there.

    And Dax, a science officer, replying, 'you're crazy if you think if think this going to stop us from exploring the Gama Quadrant'.

    I think she was right anyway, but don't say it right then and there. (Technically, the planet wasn't in Dominion territory)

    All it did was provoke them.

    Still, the Dominion just went and annihilated the entire colony without so much as a warning. Then they go to the station and inform them of what happened.

    No wonder the Founders keep getting targeted every few years.
     
  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it takes two to go to war. If Poland didn't want to go to war with Germany they could have just said no.

    They didn't find the founders in the first two years because the founders didn't want to be found. Their MO in the gamma quadrant is to be hands off most of the time then to send in the Jem Hadar to blow people up when they get mad. They didn't put any territory markers on that planet because it doesn't concern them to kill solids. They tried to find evidence of the Dominion that all the aliens kept referring to but couldn't find them anywhere. They also didn't destroy the wormhole because they thought it would always be an option. Remember they were attempting to do so when the Dominion made it impossible.

    Being a prior victim of atrocities is not an excuse to commit atrocities of your own.

    Odo didn't convince the female changeling that humans were ok afterall. He convinced her that they would not try to murder them all in revenge. The war was already won, Odo just convinced her to give the order to surrender rather than fight to the last man. It wasn't Odo or the bioweapon that won the war, it was just Odo that made the victory less bloody.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Best? Kirk and Balok. Both are playing chicken. Kirk opens the door for cultural exchange.

    Honorable mention for Picard's damage control with the Malcorians. The Federation's policy of secretly spying on other cultures before diplomatic overtures gives concerns regarding their ethics.

    Worst: Has to be the bureaucratic bungle that agreed on a border containing habitable worlds within the De-Militarized Zone between the Federation and Cardassians.
     
  9. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hope that's just a bad attempt at sarcasm.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Which still basically says that the Dominion War would have continued after the Battle of Cardassia if Odo hadn't persuaded her to have faith in the solids. Had it not been for that, hostilities would have continued, even if the final outcome was certain. Possibly milliions of more lives would have been lost as the Jem'Hadar and the Breen would have continued fighting on other fronts, perhaps striking at entire Federation worlds in retribution.

    FEMALE FOUNDER: You may win this war, Commander, but I promise you, when it is over, you will have lost so many ships, so many lives, that your victory will taste as bitter as defeat.

    Agreed.
     
  11. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Sisko in "Emissary" was a great display of diplomacy, trying to find common ground with a very alien species, helping them to understand concepts totally foreign to them but the basis of our existence. After he was done he had secured safe passage through the Wormhole and opened up a whole new quadrant.

    As for worst: any diplomatic situation where Archer was involved pretty much.
     
  12. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, I was taken aback as well.
     
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That quote didn't 'take you aback' enough to notice that as obvious sarcasm? Holy crap.

    That quote was blaming the Federation for the war and also blaming every invaded country for being invaded.
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Dominion did warn the Federation off, and there was an opportunity to steer clear of war. Definitely should have mined the mouth of that wormhole sooner. However, every invaded country throughout time didn't "have it coming." A lot of suffering could have been prevented by the invaders simply staying inside their own territories.

    Don't get me wrong, some wars serve a purpose.

    :)
     
  15. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    You're very mistaken about my quote and also including things I didn't say, but Merry Christmas summed up my sentiments exactly:
    :techman:
    Closing the wormhole may not have been a popular choice for our heroes, but it was definitely an option from the very beginning.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They should've closed off the wormhole. Then they would have had seventy years to prepare for the Dominion.
     
  17. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Dominion was the aggressor in all this, so the ultimate blame for the war falls on them.

    The Dominion's attitude is unrealistic and basically crazy. They want to bring order to and conquer the entire galaxy.

    Which means endless warfare, bullying people, and a chance that some power or someone is finally going to nail them good.

    As far diplomatic screw ups, the Dominion made the first and biggest mistake, but at times the Fed's attitude was just as hard to understand.

    They just discovered the wormhole a year or two ago, and already they're on the other side setting up colonies?

    I'd be really uncomfortable about setting up a colony on the other side of the wormhole (which could collapse at any moment, who knows) 70 years away, especially after hearing stories about the Dominion.

    For Starfleet to let the wormhole stay open as long as they did, with no dedicated fleet to guard the station, was just waiting for trouble IMO.
     
  18. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think there is sometimes a price to be paid for boldly going where no one has gone before. Sometimes you end up someplace you're not wanted and the locals aren't happy at all to see you.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Bingo.

    You'd have thought the Federation would've learned this lesson after what happened on Cestus III.
     
  20. RPJOB

    RPJOB Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd say the worst was A Taste of Armageddon. The Enterprise was warned not to enter an independent system. They went in anyway with the intention of setting up a treaty port.* When they became involved in the war Kirk threatened to kill everyone on the planet and then later totally overthrew a system that, to us, was barbaric but worked for the tow planets involved. It may not have been a war that the Federation would have fought but in a very odd way it lept the peace. Cities were not bombed. Disease was not rampant. Economies were not destroyed. Just showing up escalated the war. Way to go Federation.

    *A treaty port is a port that is established in a country at the barrel of a gun. From Wikipedia:

    The first treaty ports in China were British and were established at the conclusion of the First Opium War by the Treaty of Nanking in 1842. As well as ceding the island of Hong Kong to the United Kingdom in perpetuity, the treaty also established five treaty ports at Shanghai, Canton, Ningpo, Fuchow, and Amoy. French and American concessions followed soon afterwards.

    And this:

    “Unequal treaty” is a term used in specific reference to a number of treaties imposed by Western powers, during the 19th and early 20th centuries, on Qing Dynasty China and late Tokugawa Japan. The term is also applied to treaties imposed during the same time frame on late Joseon Dynasty Korea by the post-Meiji Restoration Empire of Japan.
    The treaties were often signed by these Asian states after suffering military defeat in various skirmishes or wars with the foreign powers or when there was a threat of military action by those powers.

    Not really the sort of thing that you would imagine the "enlightened" Federation would do but there it is.