Benedict Cumberbatch /John Harrison [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by serenitytrek1, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    BC's character should have stayed as John Harrison. The guy is flawless, now that I have seen STiD multiple times, I strongly believe that he should get nominated for an Oscar, If they could nominate Ledger why not him?


    The only thing that spoils BC in this film was that he was Khan. Am sure with some of the backlash STiD has received, Orci and CO are probably regretting it and pulling their hairs out about some of the bad decisions they made in this film. (Another bad decision was the Khan scream by Spock) However this is just my personal opinion.

    If BC was just a brand new character to the Trek Universe, it would have been beyond genius. BC was just so great in this film. All Trek fans were blessed to have him. Apparently some Star Wars fans are begging JJ to cast him in episode 7.:lol:


    If only he had not been Khan. Trek could have created a brand new iconic villain for this generation solely because of BC's great acting, cool demeanour and enduring presence on screen.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2013
  2. Cinema Geekly

    Cinema Geekly Commander Red Shirt

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    If by backlash you mean the vocal minority of Trek fans (the majority of which were already preconditioned to hate this film because of the last) then nope.

    If that was a factor they would have never made another movie those same people hated the first film with a passion.

    That has been the only real backlash. It was still critically well received, did great box office numbers, and exceeded expectations overseas.

    They were always going to do Khan, never were they not. As Orci has stated "when your given a box of toys to play with, you always take out the coolest ones first".

    While the original premise of the ST09 was that it wasn't a super strict reboot (because they did include elements from the Prime Universe) it was still a reboot, and when you do a reboot you are going back and doing old characters for a new generation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2013
  3. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I'm a huge fan of Cumberbatch, but... Oscar? He was the best thing about the film for me, but I don't think he did anything Oscar-worthy.

    I've no doubt that Cumberbatch will be back as Khan for the next film.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What backlash?

    They really aren't too concerned with people who are overly attached to fifty-year old material.
     
  5. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I really shouldn't have to remind you about keeping spoilers out of thread titles, but here's a reminder:

    DO NOT PUT SPOILERS IN THREAD TITLES.

    Yes, it's just Japan to go, but they still get the same courtesy. We're going to wait until the movie has been in full release there for at least a week before we start pasting spoilers where everyone can see them (that includes the TrekBBS Main Index, which is where your original title for this thread was visible.)
     
  6. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    Is this I love nuTrek but I have absolutely nothing good to say about it schtick fooling anyone?
     
  7. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    I'm getting a headache from all this. I just want my BR disc here so I can watch it on the big screen at school.

    In other news, I got into it with Trekfreek on YouTube. Do I get a cookie or a medal?
     
  8. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    My only complaint about JJ Trek is that there is not MORE of it! I want more adventures to watch with this cast, in this universe.
     
  9. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    ^Agreed.

    As far as the "Khan/noKhan" fauxtroversy, the vocal minority of fandom would have complained if BC wasn't Khan - "They missed a perfect oppportunity to make Cumberbatch Khan! Who is this John Harrison?! Hate! Hate! Hate!"

    yawn...
     
  10. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    I personally disagree, If they gave ledger an Oscar why not BC. BC was just as good if not better than Ledger, such a shame. yeah , he might not get a nomination. To me its like Alan Rickman from Harry Potter all over again.
     
  11. Pondslider

    Pondslider Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I like Cumberbatch but he doesn't deserve an Oscar. Comparing his character to Ledger's Joker is ridiculous. Even leaving the cultural impact out of it, Cumberbatch didn't even come close to owning that role in the way Ledger did.
     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Cumberbatch was awesome as Khan. I just wish we got to see more of him! Hopefully STXIII will open with Khan being thawed for trial - and escaping.

    The whole idea that Starfleet thawed Khan and tried blackmailing him into building weapons for a war with the Klingons... it's utterly insane. And awesome. It played the AU premise to it's fullest - you could not have told a Khan story any less like "Space Seed" or "Wrath of Khan" if you tried.
     
  13. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    You hit the nail on the head up until Spock yield Khan. The
    re-acted scene by Kirk and Spock in STiD was good. I wont necessary call it a rip off, however I just wish that the writers had not let Spock scream Khan.

    Sometimes Less is More. The Khan scream spoilt the whole scene and even broke the fourth wall for me.

    I didn't see Kirk and Spock in STiD, I saw Pine and Quinto been told by JJ Abrams' to pay tribute to Wrath of Khan.

    the scene became has become like a serious parody to me.


    sigh....
     
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I certainly agree that John Harrison was more interesting than Khan, and even made a thread to that effect. And certainly since Orci has described the creative process for the character as creating and developing a new character who he then named Khan kind of makes it really pointless for the character to be Khan.

    Just what is accomplished by this anyway? It's not marketing, they kept the Khan identity top secret thereby preventing them from taking advantage of any marketing opportunity this idea presents itself with.

    One could argue dramatic effect. It would be completely out of left field for Harrison, sitting in the brig to announce he's Khan. And I suppose it would have been if the Abrams posse hadn't constantly been saying there's a twist to the Harrison character related to Trek canon like snickering school children telling the loser kid they know who has a crush on him but refusing to reveal who exactly.

    I get the impression they are in love with plot twists and wanted to try their hand at a twist which will be forever remembered in movie history like Vader revealing he's Luke's father. Instead they completely ruined it just made themselves look like petulant children and by extension unprofessional filmmakers.

    Or, they like "TWOK is our favourite movie and we really wanted to revisit it. So we remade its most memorable scene and named our villain Khan."

    A better approach would have been to stick to the John Harrison character as the villain or if they wanted to use Khan so badly been upfront about it, actually write and develop the character as Khan, and announced to the world as soon as Cumberbatch was cast that he was indeed Khan.
     
  15. Pondslider

    Pondslider Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yup. And since the name Khan was meaningless to Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the reveal carried no weight except for with the audience. The whole thing was a missed opportunity.
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    And to make matters worse, the movie is aimed at an audience which is supposed to be unfamiliar with Star Trek, so to the general public, hearing the character say "my name is Khan," followed by a dramatic pause just leaves them time to ask "and why is this significant?"
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think to some degree even people with only a passing familiarity with Trek are familiar with Khan in at least general terms. Could be wrong, but of all the Trek names someone could throw out, I imagine he's among the most recognizable.
     
  18. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I do not think "breaking the fourth wall" means what you think it means.
     

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  19. Joker

    Joker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ugh.

    There is nothing "genius" about "Harrison".

    Part of my considerable disappointment with this film was that it came this close to doing something interesting with the whole Khan idea. He was portrayed as an intelligent and almost sympathetic character with ambiguous morality and reasoning applied to achieve his goals. The same man we already knew but in a different universe perhaps being a something more like a hero instead of a villain.

    Then, roughly after the bridge-storming scene, he just turns into a complete scenery-chewing boring EVILBADMAN! waste of time. Look at his delivery when he says "No ship should go down without its captain"... laboured moustache-twirling crap.

    There were so many glimmers of hope in this film that it's enough to put me off JJ Abrams and the writers for life that they managed to make it as boring and flaccid as it ended up. Seriously, fucking that up must have taken effort.
     
  20. Cinema Geekly

    Cinema Geekly Commander Red Shirt

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    If you ever watched Space Seed you would know that is nothing new for Khan.

    The crew fawned over him and romanticized him (one crew member in particular). And it was all fine and dandy until he tried to take the ship and kill everyone.

    He is a master manipulator who is twelve steps ahead of everyone else, he plays on emotions to get what he wants.

    And of course his downfall is his rage which often overrides his brilliant mind.

    If anything BC basically played a perfect Khan with his own twists thrown in there.