Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by sosolidshoe, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I would've wondered why the hell she hadn't died or retired years earlier.
     
  2. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Location:
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    Where as I would have been annoyed becuase they had done that two books ago.

    Yeah you raise a good point.
     
  3. cal888

    cal888 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Location:
    Californian living in Santa Catarina, Brazil
    True, although from what I've heard about the Vulcan's Soul trilogy, it establishes Checkov and Uhura as being around after Nemesis. I just picked Uhura's name out of the hat to develop a contrast between how TOS and VGR characters could be perceived, if not by the writers/editors, but the fans reading at home.

    My point is more geared towards the real-life "political" decision to kill off Janeway, how it was implemented in an arguably haphazard manor, and how VGR fans interpreted it/reacted to it. Would TPTB have killed off a TOS character like that? I'm not arguing that a double standard exists, just that a double standard could be perceived by some VGR fans.

    I do think a major TOS bias exists in the book line, but that is probably more due to standalone TOS books selling well compared to the 24th Century books and ENT.
     
  4. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Don't forget (I know its not cannon but it still fits) when Titan's computer became sentient. And if the Borg cube's cybernetic systems are comparable, then there's no reason that those system cannot also become sentient.
     
  5. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    I think you'll have a hell of a wait. Janeway is dead and not coming back. And I think you may find the new stories are better for her being dead.
     
  6. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Location:
    Louisville Kentucky - Halliwell
    Janeway may indeed return in a future novel. If a good enough story were to come along they'll write it.

    As for me...

    Not.Dead
     
  7. Deano2099

    Deano2099 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    This is the thing, I don't see how it was possibly 'political' - Pocket books have two objectives and only two objectives, and while they have to balance these two, I don't see that they have any other motivations:

    a) to tell good stories

    b) to make money by selling books

    Now in terms of b), Pocket aren't stupid, they knew that killing Janeway would upset some of the hardcore Janeway fans (and there's nothing wrong with that, we'd all be annoyed if our favourite characters were killed). Some of those people were bound to stop buying the books. Not many, but some. And on the other side, it's hard to imagine that anyone went "wow, I wasn't reading Voyager, but now Janeway is dead I might start!" [aside: lot's of people did start reading after she was killed, but that's because everyone was talking about what a brilliant job Kirsten did].

    So killing Janeway wasn't motivated by money so why do it? To tell good stories. The editorial staff and authors figured that it'd be an interesting direction to take things in. And they seem to have been proven right.
     
  8. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Location:
    everywhere
    i started reading VGR cuz they killed Janeway. just to annoy the MJF...

    so, i was well chuffed Full Circle was so good.
     
  9. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Why kill Janeway just to annoy Micheal Jan Friedman? :wtf:
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Of course it was motivated partly by money. Big Event stories like that are always about drawing in the audience. The assumption was that the new readers intrigued enough by the plot development to want to see what would happen next -- along with the readers who were offended by the development but kept reading anyway so they'd know what to complain about, or because there were other things about the series they still enjoyed despite the one thing that bothered them -- would probably outweigh those few who'd stop reading because of the change. That's always the consideration with any major change or story twist. There are always going to be some in the audience who are turned off by it, but the goal is to draw in enough new audience members to get a cumulative gain.

    The thing is, you're talking about the goal to make money and the goal to tell interesting stories as if they were separate things. They're not. How else are you going to make money except by telling interesting stories, stories that get the audience interested and invested enough to keep spending money on the books?
     
  11. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Location:
    everywhere
    just in case that's not a joke, i meant i started reading the books to annoy the militant janeway fans.
     
  12. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Yes it was a joke. But remember MJF means Micheal Jan Friedman so you'll need to find a new phrase to say militant Janeway fans. MJF will always be the author to us.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Milliways? :techman:
     
  14. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    That works. Well done. :devil::bolian:
     
  15. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Prepare to face the wrath of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy devotees.

    BTW, I have some Milliway's items for sale here. :D
     
  16. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    So how about then milwans?
     
  17. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Howzabout Janewaynistas?
     
  18. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    How about zombie hords of Janeway isn't dead fanatics? ZHoJiDF (pronounced zoejidf)
     
  19. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Needs too much explanation.
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    That's the one I've always used.