Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by sosolidshoe, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "I'm not talking about the puppy."
     
  2. MagGu

    MagGu Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I just finished BD like 45 minutes ago. (I keep reading the books out of order!)

    It left me sad. But I thought the story was good!

    Spoiler Question:

    Since I read the books out of order, I'm a little confused...anyway, is it the Einstein Borg who go and tell the Borg Queen in the Delta Quadrant about what the Federation did, and that's what sends her on her killing rampage in Destiny? (I haven't read all of the TNG books, so forgive me if I'm being dumb!
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No.
    The Einstein is stopped before it can reach the Delta Quadrant. The fact that the invasion in Destiny begins only a month or so later is sheer coincidence and cosmically bad fortune. The invasion is in retaliation for Voyager's destruction of the transwarp hub in "Endgame." That elevated the Borg's assessment of the Federation from "minor nuisance we'll get around to assimilating in good time" to "clear and present danger that we have to eliminate as soon as possible." It took them a few years to discover the Caeliar subspace corridors which they used to reach the Alpha Quadrant and begin their invasion. In the meanwhile, independently of that, an isolated Borg supercube acting unilaterally (since trashing the transwarp hub trashed their galactic communication network) was close enough to the Federation to pursue its own independent retaliation, which is what led to Resistance, Before Dishonor, and Greater Than the Sum.
     
  4. langdonboom

    langdonboom Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again -- because I just don't get the hate for BD --

    I loved Before Dishonor! Nobody mentions Spock in this thread -- seeing Spock, Seven, the Planet Eater, the callback to PD's earlier Borg novel, the evolved Borg all wrapped around the threat to Earth and last but not least the perfectly horrible, ironically and almost Shakespeareanly tragic downfall of Janeway in the worst manner possible (I loved Janeway and Voyager, and I was sad about but totally jaw-droppingly enthralled with her fate) -- these things were all so appealing and made for a super-page turner like very few of the post-Nemesis books have been for me (though I have read and liked them all to various degrees).

    So, just to keep the balance a bit lest some people get the idea that BD is universally reviled - I just wanted to comment and say I couldn't put it down, Pluto-eating and all. Second to me only to the Destiny trilogy in the best of post-Nemesis Trek!

    Forgive my over-adverbification.
     
  5. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    Different strokes for different folks I guess. The way I see it Before Dishonor is very low brow as far as writing quality. I have this image of Peter David being drunk while he wrote. And I mean hard liquor and not wine.
     
  6. MagGu

    MagGu Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Thank you for such a detailed answer! Sorry if my question was silly, I just recently started reading the TNG and VOY books. I started with DS9 relaunch and that got me hooked on all books Trek!

    I'm going to continue reading out of order, though, because I just got Paths Of Disharmony! Gotta read it! Then I'll probably end up going back and reading older books while I wait for the next one!
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh the book is not that much fun.
     
  8. j3067

    j3067 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Interesting idea...how much coffee would she need each day in this scenario?
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, Pluto is an ice dwarf, so hot coffee probably wouldn't be very good for it...
     
  10. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^LOL. Maybe Janeway the Borg Queen used hot coffee in the absorbsion process. Pluto did go quickly. Of course, what did the Queen do next? Fly into the sun. Clearly her coffee needed reheating.
     
  11. 21Spike65

    21Spike65 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    While I can't say I'm as ecstatic about BD as all this, and I have a lot of the same issues with it as a lot of other posters, I will say one thing about it: For better or worse, it's the only Star Trek book that I've read start to finish in a single day.

    Now, part of this may have something to do with the fact that I was on Spring break at the time, but if nothing else, it was definitely a page-turner for me.
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Coming from someone who is not a Peter David fan.. I thought the book was okay and undeserved of such a bad reputation. I'm even okay with the death of Janeway, especially since it paved the way for a wonderful run by Kristen Beyer.

    What I did not like was how Janeway was killed. This was not only a major character, but also someone with an incredible track record against the Borg who would have known better than to be caught so off guard. The character deserved a better death, by a long shot.
     
  13. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree with this 100 percent.
     
  14. zarkon

    zarkon Captain Captain

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    Personally I think she got a better death then the character deserved.

    But then I thought she was written incredibly poorly when it mattered in the tv series.
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    And yet... the future Janeway ("Endgame") also walked straight into a situation where she would be inevitably absorbed by the Borg.

    When Ms Q said that Q had known that Janeway would deliberately walk into danger, ignoring all advice, and that's why he couldn't be there to witness the train wreck that was unfolding - and then Ms Q tried to warn her... and Janeway went anyway - I felt that all rang very true to all three characters.
     
  16. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, Janeway always antagonized people and walked right into danger, especially with the Borg, and quite frankly I think that's one part of her character that actually drew some of the MJFers to her, so I'm a bit baffled that all of the sudden it is considered bad characterization only because it bites her in the ass this time.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But she did that intentionally. She was a Trojan Horse carrying the virus that infected the Borg and weakened them enough to enable Voyager to take out the transwarp hub.
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the end we're talking about a character being given advice by a member of a species that's more often than not come across, if not as an antagonist, then certainly not as an ally. And the advice wasn't exactly delivered in the most earnest manner possible.

    Would Picard have handled it any differently? I think we can already assume Sisko would have just punched Q in the face. :)

    I think Lady Q may have nailed it when she suggested that on some level Janeway allowed her actions to be influenced by her brush with future Janeway in Endgame. That being said I doubt it was any level that Janeway was consciously aware of.

    But we've also seen that, for better or worse, Janeway isn't the type to abide being told what to do. And this time around it bites her in the @$$.
     
  19. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway just has to keep messing with the freaky warp 10 stuff.
     
  20. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, I know. In "Before Dishonor" she also walks in "intentionally".