Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Mar 18, 2009.

?

Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    71.9%
  2. Above Average

    14.2%
  3. Average

    4.8%
  4. Below Average

    4.6%
  5. Poor

    4.6%
  1. Sagart

    Sagart Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    By the way Tyrol explained his 'Land of Solitude', I immediately thought of Scotland.

    So does that mean he is an ancient ancestor of Scotty?
    It would make for a nice nod to Trek since we also had Simon quoting 'Star Wars' - "I think you overestimate their chances".

    Nice one :techman:
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Galen couldn't have been the ancestor of anyone. He specifically said that there were no people where he was going.
     
  3. Sagart

    Sagart Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    OK, you do know I was joking?
    And who's to say he doesn't meet up with some people later on? Or perhaps he invented monasticism? Maybe he invented golf?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  4. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Location:
    Either Quark's, or a bar on St. Mark's Place
    I waited a few days before posting to think about the finale and the series as a whole. Wow. I really thought the finale was great, both from a storytelling sense - I like the way they had the action climax in the first half (which was a great battle) and had the quieter final coda in the second hour - and from the way if fit into the entire series. I never agreed with the spirituality and anti-technological bent of the show (see, you can disagree with something and still enjoy it) but I thought they brought the story nicely to its conclusion. I find the whole tale, especially the ending, somewhat Hegelian, with the idea of a "World Spirit", moving history and civilization towords its destiny, the end of history, including the idea of eternal recurrence, and the possibility of breaking that recurrence. The unexplained elements - good, leave some things to the imagination of the viewer. That is what art is supposed to do. I was jacked that I correctly guessed they would find this earth, and settle there. The finale managed to be touching, exciting, thought provoking and maddening all at once. Pretty good for TV. A couple of things cut me up - Cavil, looking up at the 5 standing around Anders, and saying "Ah, two civilizations are waiting for you". Starbuck saying to Lee "Today is the first day of the rest of your life", a ubiquitous saying popular around the time of the original BSG in the 70s - Ron Moore getting his head in the show, and the height difference between Callis and Helfer. As for the people bad mouthing the show and the finale, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I am just curious to know what you are comparing the show to - Two and a half Men? CSI:Peroia? America's Next Top Model? Where on TV, outside of some premium channel series, did you find a show as interesting and thought provoking as this, or even close? Makes me think that some people just disparage for the hell of it. Anyway, just want to say:

    BRAVO, RON MOORE. BRAVO.
     
  5. Goliath

    Goliath Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Location:
    The Fifth Dimension
    Interesting. The poll currently sits at about 85 per cent "fresh," which makes this the most highly-rated series finale that I can remember.

    Does anyone have any links to similar polls for the Voyager and Enterprise finales?
     
  6. archeryguy1701

    archeryguy1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2007
    Location:
    Cheyenne, WY
    ^I was only able to find two finales, but the combining of the top two ratings on their scales are:
    Jericho- 94.64 (though it admittedly had a very small number of voters)
    Atlantis- 76.76
     
  7. The Stig

    The Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Location:
    BBC Storage, hiding from Chris Evans
    Excellent

    My measure of Galactica goes something like this:

    Did the episode have me on the edge of my seat? Check

    Did it kick the shit out of me, emotionally? Check

    Was there a serious WTF moment? Check

    I wasn't wild about the '150,000 years later' coda, but it was sufficiently cheeky that I was willing to let it slide. Part of me wishes that the show ended with 'Revelations,' but the ending we did get was touching and heartfelt. I cried. A lot.

    But now the show has ended, and I am quite glad for it. RDM took Galactica out with a bang. :techman:
     
  8. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Ok, the excitement and emotion has died down a bit in me and I've had a change to reflect and to change my rating. I'm reducing it from Excellent down to Above Average.

    There are a couple of basic reasons for that.

    1) The whole God and angels things. I was ok with that at first. But, too much of the resolution rode on that. The characters' own ingenuity and determination should've led to them finding a habitable planet. Not an answer from God or an angel. And, head Six and head Baltar's entire purpose was to get Baltar and Caprica to make sure Hera stayed safe? Er, no, they (mostly head Six) had a lot more influence earlier on. That clearly, too clearly, wasn't the initial intent. The Opera house vision, must've been from the angels because that involved Baltar and Six, was a waste of time. Not very satisfying. All in all, the god/angel plot detracted.

    2) The primitive humans on our Earth did not need any help! So, god's plan was messed up. Here's the rationale. Doc Cottle said that the colonial DNA was just like the primitive humans. So, those 2 groups were the same species. No advantage for interbreeding. The Cylons were indistinguishable from the Colonials. The humans of our Earth today are indistinguishable form both the Colonials and the skinjobs/final five. So, what exactly did Hera do? Nothing! If the Colonials hadn't shown up, the primitive humans would've evolved just as they actually did in our real history and produce us today.

    So, the 2 big criticisms I have are related. BSG mainly takes place in a cold hostile universe where survival is tough. Then, the finale puts on these high falutin airs where god/angels are involved and the Colonials/Hera/Cylons somehow evolve the primitive humans and that's crucial. That really wasn't true to the show's premise.

    It would've been better if they had just survived through their own determiniation and stubborness.

    Mr Awe
     
  9. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    What if RDM managed to get Avery Brooks to do a cameo as "Benny" instead of showing up at the end himself. I guess the Paramount lawyers wouldn't have liked that too much though. Although he wouldn't have to speak, etc.

    -Chris
     
  10. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Location:
    Either Quark's, or a bar on St. Mark's Place
    ^^Well, they did, if you think about it. Adama decided to attack and get the kid back, and the battle could have gone either way. And I don't think its very clear that Kara, H-Six and H-Baltar are "angels" or reps of "god" per se - they could represent something totally human - the force or will of human society as a whole to move towords their destiny. If this is the case, then they did "do it on their own", or at least through their collective will. That's the way I see it anyway.
     
  11. Bishbot

    Bishbot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Those are good points, and, as I've recently said in another thread - there was nothing in God's plan about Tyrol killing Tory, which set everything on a different course as well. "God" guides, and prompts, and gives information, but the humans make the decisions.
     
  12. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    We don't just like ours, it's keeping the vast majority of us alive! :guffaw:

    The majority of the Colonials would be dead after a couple of years. Look at the colonization of the new world. You've got starvation, disease, a lack of health care, and a lack of skills on how to survive in their new environment. Most will soon be dead!

    Subsistence living is not only hard but it also takes a lot of knowledge and skill. I've studied hunter gatherer societies. It's not just a matter of, well, it'll be hard work, very hard, but I'll do it and survive. There are a lot skills and knowledge that you need as well.

    Thanks, but I'll keep our technology. Not just because I like it, but because I like being alive as well.

    Mr Awe
     
  13. Darth_Pinche

    Darth_Pinche Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Location:
    grabbing my gun and bringing in the cat
    I will keep this short since I feel the show speaks for itself. The finale and the show in its entirety was phenomenal. The more I think about it, the more perfect and wonderful it becomes. It had just the right amount of resolution and mystery.

    It was so good, I really do not feel like seeing "The Plan" or "Caprica" out of fear that is may tarnish such a perfect ending.

    RDM and staff, my sombrero is off out of respect for your achievements. Well done!
     
  14. davidant32

    davidant32 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Was the ending realistic?

    Is it realistic to think that humanity would give up all their technology?
     
  15. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Re: Was the ending realistic?

    It is not "realistic" to think that humanity will ever build FTL spaceships the size of small nations, or that human beings evolving independently on the other side of the Milky Way would know "All Along The Watchtower" and use it as a vehicular guidance system. God only knows what "realistic" means in this context.

    Is it plausible as part of the story? I found it so, as did many others - while others did not.
     
  16. vampgrrl

    vampgrrl Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2001
    Location:
    Poppycock
    Re: Was the ending realistic?

    No.
    I loved the end, but no.

    Some may have but not all.
     
  17. ManOnTheWave

    ManOnTheWave Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Location:
    ManOnTheWave
    Re: Was the ending realistic?

    Since in the mini, it was said their society deliberately downgraded it's technology to avoid how vulnerable it made them to Cylons, I think it's kind of plausible they'd be predisposed to abandoning advance technology to rid themselves of the problem once and for all. I also think it makes them kind of stupid.

    They could have completely rebuilt and just outlawed slavery.
     
  18. WeAreTheBorg

    WeAreTheBorg Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Location:
    Sector 001
    Re: Was the ending realistic?

    You might think not... Romo says so at the end, and Adama says "You underestimate the desire for a clean slate, Mr. Lampkin". I think he's right.

    People are misunderstanding slightly too... they arent going caveman... they just arent using computers and building tech heavy structures and things like that. They have their basic supplies and can make tents and things, they have whatever medical supplies remain for emergencies... they really aren't giving up all that much, because they didn't have that much. The only tech they are giving up really is the ships themselves, and they've been trapped in those things for the last 5 years yearning to see a blue sky.

    It's not as farfetched as people think.
     
  19. Gregsmack

    Gregsmack Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Re: Was the ending realistic?

    "All their technology" probably involved 30-35 dumpsters with Jump drives and dirty air, food processing machinery that barely worked, and a battlestar that was broken into 500 pieces upon reaching Earth. They had very little technology worth keeping. They also wanted a fresh start and, over four years, managed to get over the lack of creature comforts of their own lives. Clean air and grass is a godsend for these people. It may not be "realistic" (the entire series is not realistic - battlestars and cylons?) but it is definitely believable.
     
  20. solariabsg25

    solariabsg25 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Re: Was the ending realistic?

    I think that people are under the impression that when they "gave up their technology" they literally burnt everything.

    My opinion is that they stripped the useful stuff out of all the ships and farmed it out amongst the various communities they set up throughout the world, which would gradually run-out or break over time and be unable to be repaired.

    This would ease the transaction to becoming self-reliant, and living off the land.
     

Share This Page