Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Mar 18, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    71.9%
  2. Above Average

    14.2%
  3. Average

    4.8%
  4. Below Average

    4.6%
  5. Poor

    4.6%
  1. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    I have abosolutely no desire to see Caprica either. But that has more to do with the god awful promos they aired! Yikes!

    Mr Awe
     
  2. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    That was a controversial point but not sure if it was the most controversial. I think that honor belongs to the "god did it" approach and the angels carrying out his plan.

    Personally, I think I'm relatively OK with that. I never expected that a TV show would explain god. Any depiction would've been both unsatisfying and well, once you have god on your side, it's hard to lose which lessens the drama. So, I wasn't surprised that god wasn't explained.

    However, was it the best explanation for the head characters, Kara, etc? Probably not, but it worked OK. Good enough for me that it wasn't a problem at least. Ask me again later and you might get another answer because I'm still processing.

    One quick take, knowing the god answer might actually reduce the enjoyment of rewatching the episodes. I mean, if you know that the head characters just want to get Hera to our Earth, it reduces the importance of those scenes! Or at least it might, I'll let posterity answer that one.

    Mr Awe
     
  3. So wait, was the idea that HeadSix and HeadBaltar are actually literally Angels? that was the idea I got from the "he doesn't like that name".

    i was kind of hoping, one of them was god and the other was the devil.
     
  4. the_wildcard

    the_wildcard Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Whatever happened to "Hardball" and "Narcho"?
     
  5. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    That's the romanticized view of it. Subsistence living is a tough brutal life where most people die young. If you reached the age of 35, you were old. The landscape looked nice on the screen but many of the colonists would've died in the first couple of years. The natives wouldn't have necessarily been friendly either.

    Additionally, if they're close enough to produce offspring they're close enough to spread diseases. Either the natives or the colonists, or maybe both groups, would've likely been wiped out due to no immunity to diseases. Just look at the native American's in our real history. 90% wiped out by European diseases. Man, what would've space disease have done to them and Earth diseases to the colonists. Not good!

    Mr Awe
     
  6. Arrqh

    Arrqh Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Totally. I mean, how many of the colonials had ever actually had to grow crops to survive? Well aside from Baltar. Splitting into groups was also a bad idea... strength in numbers and all, even without any technology that was better then a plow. Even though that was significantly before the plow was invented. I guess they kept that one to themselves and didn't teach the natives?

    I certainly wouldn't have happily gone along with it. They gave up indoor plumbing! That was really the only thing about the episode that bugged me, that everyone just went along with the whole clean slate thing. Medicine especially. The final coda didn't really bother me except for the shots of silly looking robots at the very very tail end. But I can just ignore that :p
     
  7. T'Pers0n

    T'Pers0n Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Jan 5, 2003
    Location:
    Georgia
    Average. I liked it. But, it could have been more artfully done. Maybe, cut off part of the ending and finish it with Adama on the hill.

    Would rather of had Sometimes A Great Notion as a series finale. But, that's probably just me. Yeah, it leaves a lot in the air. But, the whole going out to sea bit really worked well for me.
     
  8. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    Dec 30, 2002
    So a little less than 200 years from now, we're going to send out a ship that'll land on the original earth, only they'll call it Earth 2 and meet Tim Curry.
     
  9. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

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    Jan 1, 2003
    I think the head people are actually descendants of emancipated centurions.
     
  10. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    Dec 30, 2002
    I kinda wish they didn't have Head Baltar and Six at the end. Show the modern city. Show the 21st century robots. Play some Hendrix. I was kind of hoping they'd have someone recite the monologue from the original BSG credits.

    Also, looks like Racetrack got the heroic death that no one will ever know about, which some people were expecting out of Baltar.
     
  11. Frontier

    Frontier Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

    From a truly open-mind perspective, it makes a lot of sense...

    Why there are so many ancient cultures who built things, or understood things, far beyond what they could. The Mayan, the Egyptians, et cetera. Why there are common threads throughout the world mythologies.

    The show was a story of many things, but at it's root, about how history repeats itself unless we learn from it.

    The mysticism aspects, I could swallow, even if they don't fit what I believe. The end-line by Head Baltar, about 'god' - "it doesn't like to be called that" - was helpful in sealing down that the 'god' issue through the show was meant to explore that question "is this all that we are? is there nothing more?" and also to say that such beliefs must be taken for what they are, and not as iron-clad laws. Simply that, yes, there is something more, something higher on the evolutionary scale, who may indeed provide guidance, but doesn't seek worship and to rule the lives of man, rather to try and help us avoid repeating what we've done so many times; play 'god' and create 'life' which then rebels and kills us.

    Starbuck's fate raises questions, but it also answers some, and it was appropriate - if from left field. I don't think she was an 'angel' as the Head Six & Baltar where, I think she was more substantive than they. I mean, she had sex, she ate, she drank, she went to the bathroom, she took a shower, she slept, she was much more than just the individual-specific 'angelic presence' like Head Six & Baltar. She was Kara Thrace; but she was more the spirit of Kara Thrace there to fulfill her destiny, her journey, and to find peace. If you listen closely to her end conversation with Lee, she says she "doesn't know" where she's going, she tells Lee "this is the first day of the rest of your life" - your, not our lives. Anders also says after she's said goodbye and leaves "see you on the other side" as in crossing-over from this life to the next. Her disappearance was meant to evoke the connection between her being something like Head Six, but I think she was more.

    Adama going off to live his last days by himself where fitting. He had given so much those past years as the Admiral. He deserved his own fate, his own rest, his own peace. He needed to do something for himself, rather than for everyone else for a change. He and Laura delivered them, at last, after so much, and in the same respect that Laura finally succumbed to her cancer and found her peace, so too, did Adama, in his own way.

    The Tigh's each finally finding peace apart and together was what they wanted. Tigh was very tortured and needed a long winding route over these last few years to find his peace, and Ellen deserved to finally get what she wanted, to spend time with her husband, simple as that.

    The Chief going off on his own was sad and lonely, but also felt appropriate somehow.

    I'm glad that Boomer and Tori both received what was due them. It was justice. The same with Cavil in a sense. Though he deserved far worse, in my opinion.

    I was surprised that Baltar was actually able to redeem himself. He can't erase what he did, but we learned so much about him in the very end. What he did was out of love, and what was missing for him was pride, was the ability for others, especially Caprica Six, to be proud of him. For him to accept his past, who he was, and stop trying to be something he wasn't. He and Caprica Six where the first each of their kind to love the other side, even if Baltar didn't intellectually know it at the time.

    As far as the "lets all go be cavemen" thing... it wasn't a "lets all go be cavemen" thing, it was a "lets start again" thing.

    They tried, on New Caprica, to re-build their old lives. It didn't work. Not just because the Cylons did show up, not just because the planet was rough and barren. Because in the same way they clung to the way things used to be with the law, legality, with the quorum of twelve, amongst other things, they also clung to conceptions and knowledge and a life they could never recover. Abandoning their technology, starting over, was the only way in which they could truly survive and 'start over' as it where. They could give many gifts to the people already on that world, and let humanity survive, in the same act. It was their last best hope to break the cycle. I mean, Kobol - Earth (Cylon) - Caprica and their respective ends, where all only a few thousand years apart. Because they tried to re-build their own lives on those new worlds. The 'starting over' thing let it be 150,000 years, and maybe, just maybe, the end to the cycle. Joining with the Cylon let it be maybe the end of the cycle. Letting the Centurions go and find their own destiny let it maybe be the end of the cycle. Because like the show has said: "it's not enough just to survive".

    On a fanboy note, I loved the battles. Especially the hand-to-hand centurions, which I imagine they could make a feature-film of and people would see, just 2 hours of non-talking centurions kicking each others asses.
     
  12. Klaitu

    Klaitu Commodore Commodore

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    The 1980's
    I personally really enjoyed the episode, and I thought the ending tag after the 150,000 years was an excellent addition as-is.. not because of any artistic preference, but because the show just likes to generate more questions than it answers. The choice to actually answer those questions I thought was a good one.
     
  13. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    May 5, 2004
    Better rewatch "No Exit," then. Those things are neither said nor implied.
     
  14. hamudm

    hamudm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Langley, B.C., Canada
    I haven't watched it yet, but my worst fears seem to be confirmed... this sounds really fucking stupid (just my opinion, not knocking anyone else's!). BSG will always be seasons 1 + 2 + Razor to me (plus a couple of ssn 3 eps). From the sounds of this nonsense it sounds like they really shit the bed on tying up the story by writing themselves into a corner.

    Oh well RDM, you're still the man for giving us two of the best seasons of TV ever :)
     
  15. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 4, 2002
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    EXILE + ATTON = GUUUUUUSH!!!! (pic by aimo)
    I won't say what I didn't like about the episode... I'm sure people have already talked about the stupid Twilight Zone-ish ending to death already.

    I'll just say that I was only hoping for ONE thing to happen in this episode and it did, in the most satisfying way. Tori got hers after all this time and at the hands of Tyrol no less. It just made me happy to see that happen.
     
  16. Devnull

    Devnull Captain Captain

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    Aug 3, 2005
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    Delphi, Caprica
    I had some problems with the very end, but I had to vote excellent for many reasons such as: the epic space battle which was unique from all others in true BSG fashion, Tyrol killing Tori with his bare hands and Cavil's reaction to that.
     
  17. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    A lot of this is because of Cavil. He arranged for Tyrol and Tigh to be aboard, and I suppose Tory came with Roslin, hence the timing of the attack. Ellen he somehow gets off Caprica during the attack. Anders must have been a PITA to him.
     
  18. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    Mar 16, 2006
    An excellent from me. Not much else to say.
     
  19. hamudm

    hamudm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    damn. i really wished my favourite show had turned out good :(
     
  20. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly why I loved the ending. Our little robots like Asimo look all cute and innocent but could be the precursors to our "cylons" someday. The whole series has been about showing us one possible future if we don't change our ways.