Battlestar Galactica Series Finale: "Daybreak, Part II"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Mar 18, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    71.9%
  2. Above Average

    14.2%
  3. Average

    4.8%
  4. Below Average

    4.6%
  5. Poor

    4.6%
  1. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    On the destruct button until the last minute!

    That was my gut feeling, as well... but it is rapidly passing.


    Maybe I've been watching Star Trek for too long... but whenever a character mentions "God," I immediately assume that they are referring to a super-intelligent computer or an alien or a mysterious third party that is masquerading as a deity for it's own purposes, etc.

    In fact, the third option is what I expected to happen on BSG. I kept waiting for some unexpected character to jump out and yell "I did it! Here's why..." but that never happened.

    I actually prefer the ending we got. There really was a force in the universe that wanted to end the cycle of death. Great ending. I didn't see it coming.
     
  2. fleetcaptain

    fleetcaptain Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Great series finale. Like many other fans, I wish this could of gone on longer. Say for another season at least. After reading some of the posts on here, I'm wondering why the writers didn't explain more about Starbuck. Just to leave her a complete mystery. I was kind of sad that Galactica had to be destroyed, along with the fleet. I was kind of hoping atleast another Battlestar had survived.
    Was also happy to see the flashbacks to before everything happened. This show will surely be missed by me for sure.
     
  3. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A "doesn't like to be called that"-damned travesty.

    I voted below average only for the hour and twenty minutes before it went from awesome to suck in the time it took for Earth to rise over the moon.

    I cannot believe people are buying this.

    The good

    Bitchin' space battle.

    Aaron Doral gets a line! Seriously, I thought he'd been downgraded to extra pay.

    The Opera House thing was done well.

    However temporarily, Caprica and Baltar seeing their virtual twins was sweet.

    The bad

    Flashbacks of pointless if sometimes faintly (very faintly) interesting crap. Lee needs to learn to close his windows.

    Athena shooting Boomer. Yeah, this is purely personal taste, but I wanted Boomer to live or at least go out a martyr--not executed without trial, not put down like a damned dog. Athena: murderer.

    Tyrol gets a downgrade from poor decisionmaker to complete retard, surpassing his fuckup from a few weeks ago with a fuck up that dooms two civilizations to extinction. You couldn't have waited five minutes to kill her--you know, until the genocide was averted? And no one even gets mad at him for it? Tyrol: manslaughterer. And an idiot.

    Unfortunately, an end to the cycle of violence was thrown away when Tyrol between Cavil-Cylons and the Humans and Rebel-Cylons was thrown away by Tyrol's inability to control himself. Dean Stockwell, as always, was great. I wanted Cavil to get his wish. He just wanted to grow and to evolve. It's not his fault he's trapped with the emotional capabilities of a precocious but disturbed child and in the filthy body of a human being. Cavil: suicide? (That was weird.)

    Now, on to the Cylon home-colony, which is apparently many hundreds of cubic kilometers in volume and possibly larger... and it's broken into bits by the nukes from one Raptor? And if it really is that easy, why didn't the Rebel Cylons do it a year ago? Racetrack: perpetrator of genocide.

    The Ugly

    The "angels" turn out to be angels.

    "God" turns out to be God.

    The visions turn out to be visions.

    Hera turns out to be a... little girl?

    And Starbuck turns out to not be real. Despite the fact she's able to kill people and shoot Centurions and...

    and...

    Now let's hold it right here. A figment of everyone's imagination shot people during the mutiny, shot Centurions on the Cylon colony, can lift stuff... now there's a reason solipsism isn't really viable as a concept. The reason is that in when what you see and what reality is don't match up, you die. If I try to walk down a flight of stairs and all I see is a level floor, I fall down each step and break my neck on the bottom. If I am in a firefight, and the person next to me is not real, and I am only taking it on faith that what she is killing is actually dead, I am going to be perforated the first time I turn my back on a corpse that is actually alive.

    But I guess in BSG fake bullets make real holes, because they're the will of God. Too bad God, who can interact physically with the real world, thought it would be awesome to watch billions die. Great guy, God.

    So, after they destroy civilization, it turns out All Along the Watchtower is... coordinates. For Earth. Sent by...

    Right, sent by God.

    And the ending? I mean, the establishment of the humans on Earth... with the humans of Earth... I liked it better when it was called Restaurant at the End of the Universe but that's because that book was a Goddamn comedy and not a pretentious science fiction drama too full of itself to answer its own questions.

    Real answers, not answers that boil down to "because it is" (or rather, because "I am because I am").

    And finally, and this is where I was truly lost here, because everything else I might have stomached:

    Lee Adama, the snake in the garden of Eden. But this time, the snake says "Don't eat from the tree of knowledge, it's not good for you."

    Here's a man who thinks it's a good idea to not build a city, to abandon technology, to start humanity afresh... and that we know for a fact, because it is our Earth, consigns hundreds of billions of human progeny to squalor, misery, pestilence, and holocaust. Lee Adama creates Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Mao. Lee Adama has the opportunity to build Heaven and casts the human race and all its children into a Hell that they'll dig themselves out of only in time to build its first Cylons... and they won't know that their days are numbered if they make the mistake of treating them as slaves, because Lee Adama in his infinite fucking wisdom destroyed history.

    And thirty thousand people go along with this? Really?

    Let's jut leave aside the fact of how this is different from New Caprica... I guess every basestar in the Cylon fleet has been destroyed... because God willed it or something.

    Whatever.

    This finale, I'm truly--truly--sorry to say it, sucked. It is the BSG finale we might have expected if Ronald Moore had said, "I'm out of ideas"--and handed it to Brannon Braga. You know, I take that back.

    It's insulting to Brannon Braga.
     
  4. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe he died...
     
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It is the logical response, sir. :lol:
     
  6. steveman

    steveman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yup. It would've made a lot of sense to have seen him at some point during the first hour of "Daybreak, Part II." Kind of disappointed we didn't. The Galactica writers are usually great at working those kinds of things in.

    I mean, it's forgivable, though. Moore and Co. had a ton on their collective plate. And maybe the actor just wasn't available.
     
  7. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I assume Bulldog didn't come back because was a credited guest star who probably earned more money than most of the other co-stars (delegated to the end credits). Moreover, the original plan was to make him a recurring character, but a deal apparently wasn't reached with Carl Lumbly.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Ah. Well, that's understandable. Nature of the business, and all that.
     
  9. steveman

    steveman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Gotcha. That's too bad.
     
  10. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, I'm more disappointed that the character didn't' come back in season three than his absence here. There was a real chance to create a new dynamic for Tigh, Adama, and Bulldog, but that opportunity was lost. Instead, we can just assume Bulldog died, perhaps of age, in the fleet. Might be an interesting tie-in novel with that, actually.
     
  11. Chess Piece Face

    Chess Piece Face Commodore Commodore

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    I'm happy that you enjoyed the ending. The only problem with this line of thinking is that if there is a force in the universe who wants to end the cycle of death - why doesn't this magical force just end it? This force or God has obviously a ton of power but it chooses to work its magic through moving little pieces around on a gameboard - well then it must not want to end the cycle of death that badly, huh?
     
  12. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

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    "Women in toasters" on this show.

    So a human/artificial-human hybird from a seperately evolved human race, conceived through the key ingredient of love by the manipulations of a higher power is not an outright offensive insult to real science?

    BTW, no NuBSG can ever bash Star Trek's "The Omega Glory" again. The Cold War happened once, it will happen again!
     
  13. steveman

    steveman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He certainly had the potential to be an interesting character. That they didn't bring the character back/couldn't work out some sort of deal with Carl Lumbly really makes "Hero" seem a little superfluous. It looked like they were going somewhere with that character/episode. But then they didn't.
     
  14. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    On the destruct button until the last minute!

    Well, perhaps I should have said that it wanted the humans and cylons to end the cycle. :techman:
     
  15. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

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    Think about this, what would our Earth have been called if the Colonials didn't interfere with our culture? How would we have advanced?
     
  16. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    Probably the same way we advanced in reality.
     
  17. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Ah, but they never tried to explain what, exactly, the skinjobs are. They're just there. They don't know where they came from, and how they differ from us is nebulous at best.

    The "God" thing is not scientific at all. That's the distinction I was trying to make. "The Chase" posited itself as a plausible, scientific explanation for why everyone on Star Trek is humanoid, completely disregarding the fact that evolution is not a goal-oriented process. BSG is smart enough to not even attempt such explanations.

    The skinjobs originated on Kobol, somehow. Nobody knows how. They resurrected. Nobody knows how they did that, either. Nobody ever tried to explain. It doesn't need to be explained. Neither does the "God" issue. Any attempt to do so would just cheapen it and likely not pass any kind of scrutiny. BSG didn't insult science because it wasn't trying to pass itself off as science. That is where it fundamentally differs from "The Chase," which did portray itself as having some scientific plausibility.
     
  18. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not bringing Carl Lumbly back was a disappointment, I agree. Hero seems to be a one-off in many ways as well as a continuity nightmare.

    Question on Adama...I thought him and Roslin were going to fly into the sun at the end. Obviously, he didn't commit suicide but is he really going to live like a hermit for the rest of his life, without visiting Lee or Tigh?

    Space travel should be very interesting in our/BSG's time. You have the Centurions who have been out there for 150,000. If they haven't destroyed each other, God knows how advanced they are. 150,000 is more than enough time for the Twelve Colonies to be free of radiation and any sign of civilization. Same with New Caprica and Kobol.
     
  19. T'Pers0n

    T'Pers0n Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I see why so many people are crapping all over the ending. I totally agree with them. It's damned silly. But, I still like it. It was a long way from start to finish and any actual ending would have been enough for me.

    Except for Baltar and Lee, the flashbacks never amounted to much of anything. The whole Baltar's cult with guns thing. That never really went anywhere either. What in the hell.

    Also, people are saying the fleet's centurions had warpaint. I didn't see any at all. Is that true? Because I couldn't make heads or tails of all that cylon brawling going on. They all looked the same to me and I was really looking hard.
     
  20. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    I'm not crapping all over it, although I do think it is questionable and represents such a weird tonal shift as to be very jarring. RDM does love his metafiction, though, which is what that ending clearly was.

    I agree. Baltar and Lee's flashbacks made sense. We got some insights there. Adama and Roslin, though... what was that? We didn't learn anything of interest unless seeing the Old Man puke and Roslin nail one of her former students is supposed to be compelling. They were executed fine, I just didn't see the point. Both of their final decisions were foregone conclusions. Baltar and Lee's flashbacks resonated because they connected with the end of the series, not the beginning.

    Yeah, the Centurions the Colonials had bore red stripes, and were called the Red Stripes!