Battlestar Galactica 4x19: "Daybreak, Part I"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Mar 13, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    35.0%
  2. Above Average

    29.9%
  3. Average

    23.9%
  4. Below Average

    6.6%
  5. Poor

    4.6%
  1. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

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    That was excellent and I have voted as such.

    I think there's a point others maybe aren't seeing to the flashbacks - they're (re)introducing people from our character's lives before the fall of the colonies. Roslin's father and sisters, Baltar's father, Zak Adama, the man Adama was talking with and so on.
     
  2. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, well, Star Wars didn't belabor the point. :p
     
  3. Shaka

    Shaka Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Surprising, beautifully acted, wonderful build up for the last 2 hours, important flashback scenes that gives new lights on the characters. In a word, excellent.
     
  4. Warp Coil

    Warp Coil Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Pretty average. The acting was great, as usual, and the character moments were good. If this were just another episode of BSG I'd rate it highly. But as the first part to the SERIES finale, there wasn't enough story development. As others have already said, BSG has been stuck in neutral for the last couple of episodes. Yes, we know Starbuck is special but we don't know what she is. Yes, we know Hera is special somehow. Yes, we know Galactica is dying. These plot points keep getting flung at us, and yet without a lot of development to push the story forward. There's a LOT of setup and NO payoff. A lot of character moments and little to no plot.

    The flashbacks to Caprica were cool. I especially liked seeing Caprica Six during this time - you can tell the difference in Tricia Helfer's performance, and even the makeup seems different, to make it gel with the miniseries. I feel like these flashbacks are supposed to connect with whatever happens in the finale. I suspect we'll have even MORE flashbacks next week (which will be irritating because it'll eat up precious minutes of time). However, I'm not sure flashbacks were the way to go here. There's TOO MUCh left to tell - we can't lose half an episode to more retroactive character development at this point.
     
  5. Garth Rockett

    Garth Rockett Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know if I'd go that far, but I did find this episode thoroughly engrossing. I thought the flashbacks were great, and I suspect we'll see them tied in more clearly next week. The remaining photographs on the wall, Roslin stepping across the line to join Adama's mission, Starbuck and Roslin holding hands, Baltar's indecision, Helo and Tyrol's conversation, Helo and Athena arguing... I could go on and on. This episode was packed with the type of moments that I watch this show for.

    As we get closer to the end, I find I'm less and less interested in getting the answers to the remaining questions. Most of what I really wanted to know about was answered in "No Exit". I've never really felt like I need to know anything about the Opera House or the Head People. I wouldn't even be looking for answers to those questions if RDM hadn't already said they will be answered before the end. (In fact, I was disappointed to hear the Head People would even get an answer. That was one I had hoped they wouldn't address at all.) The only remaining question I have any interest in is Starbuck's resurrection, but even that I'm not really burning to know anymore.

    At this point, all I really want is to see these characters go out in a blaze on glory, and it looks like that's exactly where we're heading. I can't wait for next week.
     
  6. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    Gaius: "What was your name again??" =-0 :guffaw:
    So we really are to assume that he didn't know Six's name the entire time they were dating/frakking. And that was stated onscreen as... over a year??
     
  7. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    Poor. I think I picked the wrong one to tune into. What a clusterfrak.
     
  8. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I imagine that their positronic-brained cars rose up against them at the same time their killbots did. And unlike killbots, no one would think to put hardcoded kill limits on cars, making the Zap Brannigan stratagem useless against them.
     
  9. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't think the next episode is going to tell us what Starbuck is. This episode basically sealed it for me. They aren't going to explain it because it doesn't matter.

    This whole season has been about identity--who and what these people, human and Cylon, really are. At the end of the day, they are who they decide to be. Tigh found out he's a Cylon but decided that didn't change the man he really was. Although they didn't dig too deeply into it, Starbuck got over Anders being a Cylon, partly because of her own mysterious nature, but also because she realized it didn't matter. He was still the same person, still Samuel Anders.

    Tyrol really hasn't been able to come to grips with the whole thing, but he's also someone who always had trouble finding his place. He muddled through being the deck chief married to boiled cabbage, never really happy. He seemed to think being a Cylon would give him a new lease on life, a hook of identity to hang his hat on. But it didn't--he's still the same miserable, distant person who's lost everything he ever cared about. Being a Cylon didn't make him a better or worse person.

    You put all these thing together, and it becomes clear that it's irrelevant what anyone says these people are. They just are what they are. Having the label "Cylon" doesn't change your basic nature, and that's what they are all finally having to realize. Being Cylon, human, or mysterious resurrectee--it's all the same. They're just labels and wedges they use to drive each other apart, and that's the cycle they have to stop, and just be content being who they are, and not feud over what labels they've attached to others.
     
  10. USS Gettysburg

    USS Gettysburg Captain Captain

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    Ditto. We are looking for "the perfect throw."
     
  11. Koinek

    Koinek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Average although I really should have voted Poor. The actual relevant content of this episode comprised about 15-20 minutes. That's how long this whole thing should have been.

    The flashbacks only proved what I knew already. TPTB (RDM) have forgotted where the characters came from (and for that matter where their fans came from). Watch the flashback Baltar-6 scenes with the ones from the miniseries. There is such a difference in tone and chemistry. They just ruined the memory of the miniseries for me.

    The more this season goes on, the more I just want to get it over with. It's obvious that TPTB got a more and more magnum-opus-y through the show's run and gradually forgot that they need to provide a bit of actual excitement as opposed to drama.

    We know it already. Dreilide was Number 7. That's the big difference between the early seasons and now. S1 and S2 left you grasping at clues, desperately guessing what the hell was going on. It was actually fun and exciting. Now, every clue has the subtlety of a sledgehammer and we're just waiting to be put out of our misery by seeing it on screen.
     
  12. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Right, but just having that hung in front of us doesn't give any particulars on how she actually came back. She won't find out, and neither will we.
     
  13. Koinek

    Koinek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Oh ok. Yea, I can get that. Actually I think we'll get some through-away one liner that wraps it all up in the middle of a 10 minute conversation. The script and director won't pause for it. Then the whole episode will move on and nothing will have changed.
     
  14. Yassim

    Yassim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A few things -

    - anybody still watching to "get the answers to the questions" should get out now. That's never been the point, and you will howl when the final credits roll, and you still don't know who the HeadPeople are/who the Cylon God is/who wrote The Watchtower/why Tigh's eyepatch is pink etc etc etc. It's been clear for a while that some of the mysteries will linger. Either you can live with that or you can't. Decide now.

    - Anyone else getting a "All Good Things..." vibe? Look, it's the first season! Again!

    - I liked most of the Caprica stuff, but I missed the point of the Will Adama scene? What was he protesting?

    - Doesn't a bird in the house signal a death in the family? Was that the point of the drunk Lee scene?

    - Crusty old Tigh continues to radiate awesome in even the most casual scenes.

    - Adama's final speech was alright, but not as awesome as some - too bad he doesn't finish on his highest note.

    - the huge conflict over Hera seems a little forced - really? we're all signing up because we want to save Helo's little girl? This needed a little more than Adama picking the photo off the wall. Maybe because he's thinking about Zac? Maybe because he wants to die with his ship? I think this needs a little more explaining.

    - and if the show weren't wrapping up, I'd be annoyed that Anders can find the Cylon colony... if you ask him. I guess Adama told him there were only two hourse left.

    Still, it gave me shivers at times, to think it's all going to be over soon. Good episode.
     
  15. Vonstadt

    Vonstadt Captain Captain

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    I gave it an excellent , not for the episode cause it really not gonna be over til the next 2 hrs...I see Daybreak as all one episode.

    I gave it an excellent for the 'Old Man'.

    Almost for this line alone "I know what you are...you are my daughter"

    Nuff said for me :)

    Vons
     
  16. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    See, I don't think we'll even get that. I would be surprised. My line of thinking is more like Yassim's. Some viewers watch this show hoping for revelations and answers, and missed that this show has never been about those things. It's always been about the questions, and how grappling with them affects the characters. Starbuck's resurrection thread doesn't exist merely as something to tie into the larger story. It's there for her to agonize over and deal with and realize it just doesn't matter. Adama was right--she's his daughter. Tigh is his best friend. Who cares if one's a Cylon and one came back from the dead?

    Out of everyone, I think Adama has really become a model for where everyone else is headed. He did a lot of crying and grunting and breaking stuff, but he came to terms with everything. He's OK with Tigh being a Cylon, Starbuck being weird, losing Galactica, he knows Laura is going to die soon. He quit beating himself up about those things and found something to fight for: Hera. In the end, that's all most people want--a purpose.

    And I think that, more than anything, is what we will get next week. It won't be about "what" they are, but rather what their purpose will be. Finding a direction for the future. I don't think we'll necessarily see the fruits of that new direction, but they will at least be set upon that path.

    This is all speculation, though. I really have no spoilers of any kind.
     
  17. Kaijima

    Kaijima Captain Captain

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    I got the feeling this episode might have been one of those infamous ones that was assembled at the last minute in the editing room, from like 90 solid minutes of footage. There was no real story here, just a bunch of snapshots, some of which were good ideas, some bad, I think.

    Oddly of all the Caprica flashback stuff I think the most critical was Baltar's. Here, we saw some of the roots of Baltar's personality problems, in a very relatable way: most people know someone who's grown up under difficult parents, possibly hating them, and one interpretation of Baltar's flashback here is that his circumstances helped make him so self-serving because he saw this as a strategy to keep control of his own life. In the car, when Six remarked on the danger of relying on others, I feel this was actually a comment on Baltar himself. Baltar preserves himself at any cost but the one thing he does not truly know how to do is place faith in other people, because he's too busy fixating on himself.

    Personally, I venture that his flashback was a setup for his own genuine redemption in the finale, where he will finally do something for others even knowing full well it might destroy him. Because we've now been shown a genuine reason for Baltar's broken personality - instead of him just "being an ass like that" - I think it's heavy set-up for his personality redeeming itself at the end.
     
  18. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No it's that the Cylons won the war (and probably a result of the war in general) that they wouldn't be too keen on a great level of AI control over things.
     
  19. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    That was pretty much how I thought about it, too. It was their equivalent of the Butlerian Jihad, I suppose. No AIs!
     
  20. shivkala

    shivkala Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was definitly a nice contrast with her scene in the mini-series with the baby (which I always saw as her doing a "mercy killing," making it quick compared to a potentially drawn out death from radiation). She seems to take pity on individuals, while at the same time, planning genocide.