Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Feb 13, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    64.8%
  2. Above Average

    26.6%
  3. Average

    5.1%
  4. Below Average

    3.1%
  5. Poor

    0.4%
  1. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Great episode, though I'm in two minds whether the revelation that, basically, the war is all down to one screwed-up motherfucker evil-genius type is a good thing that explains it all or a bad thing that makes it so mundane...

    All the same, it was amazing to see what the "real" Ellen is like, compared the moaning slag we're used to - and is it just me or was her true personality basically *very* like Roslin? And does that mean anything?
     
  2. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'll bet 'Daniel' is now 'Kara Thrace'; and Cavil/John says to Ellen, "Yes, I did corrupt his DNA...I made him a her; and turned him from 'sensitive artist' to 'militaristic mary-sue'. Besides even you HATED those cigars he used to smoke and chew on constantly." ;)
     
  3. Samuel T. Cogley

    Samuel T. Cogley Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hold still, Jim.
    I get what you're saying. But even if a few of the characters are "super-beings," then we still get to see how the other characters react to that. And that still works for me.

    I wouldn't want them all to be super-beings. But I'm kind of bummed that (maybe) none of them will be.
     
  4. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    I just figured something out. Why would they be called the final five, when they were clearly first?

    Because they're the final five survivors of Earth!
     
  5. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    I assume they were simply nicknamed "the final five" by the other Cylons, who didn't know that they were really the first five. All the Cylon models except for Cavil simply knew that there were five other models somewhere out there, and they didn't know who they were. They were "final" because they hadn't been found yet. (Maybe "missing five" would have been better??)
     
  6. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually it was found not to be true in early season 2 when Cottle gave Baltar a brain scan.
     
  7. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    I'm not sure that matters, when skinjobs apparently scan as close enough to human to pass, yet obviously have some superior physical traits, can interface directly with computers, and can be programmed themselves to do things like not need sleep. Even if Cottle ran right across a Cylon "chip", would he have recognised it?
     
  8. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Nah, that's what we used to think. More fun if there was a deeper meaning.
     
  9. Sharr Khan

    Sharr Khan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I know I sometimes post like I'm in an echo chamber but here I go again. From following RDM's podcasts I've gotten the impression he's something of an existential guy. It is also pretty clear that a third party, hmmmm a prime motivator is indeed pushing some of these events around.

    Now the nature of this third party, none of us as viewers or at the moment even the characters can really speak to. The revelation the Final Five created the other 8 models of skinjob does not mitigate the fact even the characters seem to be growing aware another force has been driving things.

    Back to existential tendieces, I fully expect an ending that will cause us and the characters to question the context of their lives as well as the events of the series. Now this could turn out (and it will piss some people off...) that indeed there is a kind of One True God at work, but its nature turns out to be... a writer/creator type.

    Don't be shocked if we step behind those foot lights. To do so is no less mystical, or even supernatural then looking into the face of G-d.

    Sharr
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2009
  10. Samuel T. Cogley

    Samuel T. Cogley Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hold still, Jim.
    What if "Daniel" turns out to a an opposite force that balances out John? A yin to his yang. As John goes through the galaxy spreading hate and destruction, Daniel is pulling the strings to try to pull people together though love and acceptance.
     
  11. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Daniel isn't real. He's an archetype created by a cabal of men who split with Valhalla Sector for the purposes of rallying the masses. Everyone knows that. :rolleyes:
     
  12. BigFoot

    BigFoot Admiral Admiral

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    Well that rules out Starbuck. :guffaw:
     
  13. MyCylon

    MyCylon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought the section you quoted from the podcast was VERY interesing. Add to that the fact that Moore has quite a sense of irony, and things may well end up differently than expected (as always ;)).

    Oh, and there's something I wanted to say in response to what you stated earlier (I don't know if it was in response to what I said or not). I certainly woulnd't count out the religious or mystical elements. I just think it's cool that (so far as I can tell now) a little bit more than I expected is actually NOT attributable to a higher power or god.
    What I mean is that in terms of what was revealed, a lot of what happened in the human and Cylon conflict was character driven. For example, you have the Final Five's decision to want to help the other colonies and to develop the skinjobs as part of that. And then you have Cavil's decision to essentially turn on his makers.
    I just like that those things come down to the characters making choices.

    Again, having said that, I certainly think that many events may well have been orchestrated. And the 'Head' people as well as Kara's return certainly seem to point to something 'greater'.
     
  14. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think we've gotten quite a bit of that so far, so I'd agree that it continues. Roslin was quite shaken when Earth wasn't as advertised. The Final Five have had their questions about who they are. Kara is still a large unknown. Cavil is certainly question who he is. Etc. I'm sure that'll continue to the end of the series.

    However, I just don't see any god making an appearance or anything else that proves or disproves either religion. So, I don't think Daniel will be revealed as either the Cylon god (either a true or exposed as a false god and thereby either proving or disproving the Cylon religion). Besides, I believe Anders said the Cylon religion comes from the centurions so is probably indepedent of Daniel.)

    I think both religions will continue to serve as a motivator as well as a source of questions (like it was for Roslin when the prophesies seem to be wrong). And, indeed the religions may evolve, or even merge, as they've done in our real history in response to changing circumstances and pressures. After all, any changes to the question of who you are could easily change views on religion.

    I wonder if the resolution for Cavil and who he is is to simply give him what he wants? He's questioning his present humanoid form, so change his form in exchange for peace. The Final Five have proven that they'll trade advanced technology in exchange for peace. That seemed short sighted before and it may well be here as well. But, what happened before happens again . . .

    Mr Awe
     
  15. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's an interesting idea on several levels. For one thing, the idea of good and evil balancing each other. But, also the idea that tangible evil can be balanced by a disembodied notion of good that can only change people's thoughts. That can lead to a change in actions but it's more indirect than the tangible evil. It's up to individual actions to set things right and it helps if they have something positive to believe in. I don't think this scenario requires anything supernatural, although I suppose it could be the basis for a new religion.

    This goes back to the idea of sufficiently advanced technology appearing to be mystical to more primitive people. I could easily see the descendents of the humans and cylons colonizing a primitive planet and reverting back technology wise due to a subsistence living conditions. The historical events will be beyond the descendents' comprehension as science and become a new religion.

    I'm wondering if the series ends with a fastwording looking at the descendents of the humans and Cylons?

    Mr Awe
     
  16. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    and that would circle back to the original series, with Count Iblis and the Ship of Lights.


    -Chris
     
  17. MyCylon

    MyCylon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just another thought about Daniel being disembodied. What about a variation of the downloading technology wherein the download is more of a stream, like streaming video or audio, if you will. Daniel streams his thoughts into people such as Baltar, and they take the form of people know to him.
     
  18. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except that there's nothing in the least "machine-like" about his thinking. He thinks like a deluded, angry and probably psychotic human being. That's understandable - he is a kind of human being, and has no idea whatever what it would be like to be a machine. He's just telling himself stories.
     
  19. QCzar

    QCzar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All of John's angst can be resolved with a brand new chromejob body. I propose this:

    [​IMG]

    Get to work, Chief.
     
  20. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I seriously wonder if part of the resolution with Cavil and the others will just be to build him a new body that he likes. I wonder what he'd want?
     

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