Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Feb 13, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    64.8%
  2. Above Average

    26.6%
  3. Average

    5.1%
  4. Below Average

    3.1%
  5. Poor

    0.4%
  1. chrisspringob

    chrisspringob Commodore Commodore

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    By the way, my working assumption at this point is that Cylon #7 is Boxey. Moore has probably been saving up the return of Boxey for the finale. ;)
     
  2. deadbabyseal

    deadbabyseal Cadet Newbie

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    'Cause he'd look like crap wearing that red dress?
     
  3. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    And thank you for mentally scaring me with that image you evil person.
     
  4. Gregsmack

    Gregsmack Captain Captain

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    In a thread from last week that I can't remember I wrote that only two actors on the show have never delivered a cringe-worthy line to my ears: Olmos and Hogan. I'd like to add one more to that list: Olmos, Hogan, and Stockwell! If the entire episode was just Cavil giving a hate-filled monologue about torture and smelling dark matter for 40 minutes I'd still probably consider it the best of the series.
     
  5. IndyJones

    IndyJones Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's a great catch! :techman:

    I like that idea for one reason...If Dirk Benedict hates that nuBSG Starbuck is a woman, think of how he'll blow his top learning that Starbuck's a cylon! :lol:


    Well, on the Earth the Final 5 came from paper had 4 corners. That's good enough for me.
     
  6. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No doubt he'd find a way to justify that - something like it's the only think that makes the humanoid form bearable.
     
  7. hamudm

    hamudm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was very dissappointed. It's nice to finally get thrown a bone with some of the backstory; however, BSG always excelled at getting across themes and story through peoples' actions and REACTIONS... this episode was solely exposition... blah blah blah. There's a first time for everything and here I am, for the first time, saying that this screams of RDM and Co. scrambling to tie up all the loose ends. For shame to you all (the show runners) for conveying such critical story elements in such a lazy manner.
     
  8. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    The whole bullit thing was just contrived to me. Practically ripping off the same thing they used when Laura started getting her visions and she debated whether not she wanted treatment, because it might end her visions...

    Though..it was done well..I'll give them that..

    Rob
     
  9. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

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    That's rather conventional...
     
  10. Harry Palmer

    Harry Palmer Admiral Admiral

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    With The Section

    Maybe, but its got a leg up on the mess we did get. :)
     
  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, as stated in the episode the Cylons DID have free will. As stated the 'Colonial' Cylons had already developed the Hybrids; but were having problems moving past that stage. the 'Five' showed up; and in exchange for the Cylons ending their was against the Colonies; the 5 agreed to ctreate the 8 true 'skinjob' models.

    Overall, I'll credit the writing staff with a nice 'save' and something that generally makes sense; and fills in a lot of holes; but two things stand out:

    1) Father Cavil/John is truely one sick f**k and has one hell of an Oedipus Complex, as he had sex with his 'mother' back in season 3.

    2) The timeline for Tigh being introduced is a BAD retcon, since we've had flashbacks showing BOTH Tigh and Adama in the Colonial Fleet DURING the first Human/Cylon War; and discussing engagements they both had with the Cylons. In the reconned timeline of this episode; it's stated Tigh was inserted in the population soon after the end of the First Colinial/Cylon war by Cavil.

    But, overall; it works. I only wish they'd thought of this back during season twoand played it out over the series run - it would have made the Cylons a HELL of a lot more interesting and intriguing (imo).
     
  12. the_wildcard

    the_wildcard Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed, quite freaky that Cavil was doing that with Ellen back in season 3. It explains Ellen's look on her face. Not just hate, which we thought was typical for humans having it for cylons, but of pure disgust.
     
  13. the_wildcard

    the_wildcard Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By the way, did they explain though WHO nuked the 13th colony?
     
  14. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry, I should have explained myself better. I didn't mean that the Colonials thought of the 13th Tribe as Cylons, as in robots. I meant that the old name given to the 13th Tribe was "Cylons". It's just an ironic coincidence that the tribe that the Colonial robots were named for, were in fact robots themselves.

    Again, I could have just made this up though.
     
  15. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    Provided the script wasn't changed, the term "Cylon" will be introduced as a technical acronym in the "Caprica" pilot movie.

    "cybernetic life-form node"
     
  16. Shaka

    Shaka Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think that's right. We saw flashbacks of Tigh with hair meeting Adama but it was some time after the First Cylon War. We never saw Tigh during the FCW, only Husker in Razor. It probably means that Tigh was reincarnated in a younger body (30 years or something) after Cavil suffocated him, and inserted in the human colonies. What i don't get is how people in the military back then didn't find strange that this new guy seemed to have memories of fighting in the FCW when there were no records of him anywhere. But i'll use my suspension of disbelief and shove that plot hole under the carpet, the rest of the episode was so enjoyable it doesn't matter.

    This was the episode i was waiting for and holy cow, when they give answers, they deliver !! It all makes sense now... i just hope we'll get more flashback of Earth as i'd love to see the Five escaping 2000 years ago, and not just in dialogue.

    Another Excellent from me, and at this rate we'll soon need to revise the scale of the poll because Excellent is becoming the norm. We need to be able to better rate the excellency :cool:

    Oh, and Kate Vernon and Dean Stockwell rock ! :techman:
     
  17. MPH

    MPH Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah but she didn't know who she really was then so she wouldn't of even thought about Cavill like that.
     
  18. QCzar

    QCzar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe you're just remembering one of the many theories posted here. I distinctly remember Peacemaker going on about just such a theory years ago. Maybe others as well, but I don't think it was ever born out on screen.

    People have been trying to give meaning to the word "Cylon" for a while now, but I don't think the writers are going to waste time on that. From the way the word is used, it could just be a distinction like "living" or "dead". In other words, "Cylon" is the term used to describe any anthropomorphic artificial lifeform or one that doesn't have any natural origin (Cavil: "Your ancestors didn't crawl out of a swamp").

    We'll probably have to wait until "Caprica" for the actual origin of the word.
    That explanation doesn't hold water, since it is strongly implied that the ancient Cylons (all iterations) were also called Cylons. And it sounds really dumb anyway.

    On Saul Tigh:

    Maybe I'm having a brain fart here, but in what episode did they ever show Tigh before the end of the 1st Cylon War? The only on-screen sighting of any past Tigh was when he and Adama were both kinda washed up, sitting in a bar and later with the incident on the Armistice Line aboard the Valkyrie.

    I think some of you are not remembering correctly.

    No, the only confirmed memories we have for Saul is when he met Bill, which was well after CWI. Anything before that is suspect. He still appeared quite young, but certainly not a teenager. No uber-retcon needed, no continuity broken.

    Shaka, considering how many records of a space-faring civilization must be computerized, it's not difficult to believe that Cavil could've inserted Tigh into them somehow. Same as with Sharon Valeri. Insertions like these even take place in the real world, so it's no so far fetched.

    On the Centurions Recognizing the Final Five as Cylons:

    I'm just not buying it. We're talking about many light years and thousands of years of separation between the original Cylons and the ancestors of the Colonials. To suggest that there is some sort of built in recognition protocol in Colonial Centurions is, to say the least, really stretching things. Why would Greystone program modern robots to be able to identify beings that, as far as he knows, don't even exist.

    No, there was some exchange. In some manner, Ellen and the others had to convince these robots that they were, in fact, synthetic humans. As they really were, there are probably ways. It's suggested by Ellen that they created the new eight models in their image, which implies they were created with similar abilities and function.

    Thus, it may have taken something as simple as plugging themselves into a machine and interfacing with it, as Sharon has done many times.
     
  19. JimmyMac

    JimmyMac Ensign Red Shirt

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    I've been thinking about the skinjobs. The final five offer cylons the chance to become more like their makers in return for ending the war with the humans. Surely that would imply a measure of free will and individuality? So I'd think that originally there was only one copy of each skinjob. Perhaps there were plans for many more models of skinjobs, with only one of each, but John became jealous of Daniel, had him terminated, and then set his Plan into action of killing the Final Five and staging a coup over the cylon nation.

    Once he's in charge, he starts creating multiple copies of the remaining skinjobs in order to make them less individual and more like machines.
     
  20. QCzar

    QCzar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think this is at the core of why the modern Cylons are the way they are. Why there are copies now, instead of individuals as on Earth. This may even explain why they can't procreate with each other. That may be Cavil as well.

    Buuuuut, Ellen did suggest that these "copies" were around and implied that the Five had something to do with that when she was talking about how John poisoned the Daniels. These may have simply been backups, as with Ellen herself, but maybe not. Maybe we'll find out next week or maybe not ever.