Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Feb 13, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    64.8%
  2. Above Average

    26.6%
  3. Average

    5.1%
  4. Below Average

    3.1%
  5. Poor

    0.4%
  1. Gregsmack

    Gregsmack Captain Captain

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    Indeed.

    With five episodes left, it's probably only going to get even better and more intense from here. I imagine the finale is going to be truly disgusting.
     
  2. Chi'pok

    Chi'pok Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Sietch Washington DC
    I want Zarek to be Daniel. That would be a nice tip of the hat to TOS in my opinion. Have one of the original Colonials be a Cylon... Ha!
     
  3. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Clinton, OH
    I'm not totally getting the 13th tribe/Cylon skinjob connection.

    13 tribes leave Kobol. 12 of them form the colonies while the 13th heads for Earth. Along the way they stop at the Algae planet and build the temple. In addition they at some point set up the satellite (maybe this was done on the return trip) that was deadly to the Cylons. Finally they arrive and colonize Earth.

    Jump forward in time and the Cylons on Earth are at war with sentient machines. Did the Earth Cylons build these machines that rebelled (this has all happened before).

    Were the Final Five machine Cylons? If so then why were they on Earth?

    How is it that the 13th tribe called themselves Cylons AND the machines built by the colonies also called themselves Cylons?
     
  4. The Evil Dead

    The Evil Dead Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So..........................Daniel is probably Starbuck's old man, right?
     
  5. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    RDM could have borrowed a Star Trek title for this episode.."What are little girls made of?"


    -Chris
     
  6. Sharr Khan

    Sharr Khan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Humanity built the skinjob/13th Tribe were Cylons not humans on Kobol after the war on Kobol humans went to the 12 Colonies and the 13th Tribe-Cylons went to Earth where they eventually fashioned their own Centurions who rose up agianst them.

    At some point (and I think this will be touched on further) the Five got a warning that the Centurions were going to kill their makers so they rebuilt ressurection tech.

    That is, skinjobs pretate Centurions oddly enough.

    Sharr
     
  7. Gregsmack

    Gregsmack Captain Captain

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    The 13th tribe left Kobol some thousand years BEFORE the 12 tribes left for the Colonies. They built the 'Temple of Hope' on the algae planet and eventually settled on a planet and called it 'Earth.' I believe the infected beacon was only infected by accident.

    On 'Earth' the descendants of the 13th tribe adapted to procreate biologically and, apparently, were wiped out by their own toasters. Whether or not they referred to themselves and their toaster enemies as 'Cylon' is never actually stated (although somebody correct me if I'm wrong).
     
  8. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    Forgive me if I totally made this up (and I probably did, because I can't find a source anywhere) but I recall reading somewhere that the Thirteenth Tribe were actually known to the Twelve Colonies as "Cylons", and that the robots they created were given that name as a kind of homage!
     
  9. Gregsmack

    Gregsmack Captain Captain

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    ^ I don't think that's right. The 13th Tribe were only outed as Cylons 5 episodes ago. I don't recall anything of that sort being stated since.
     
  10. WendellM

    WendellM Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 31, 2001
    Another episode I missed on the usual Friday, again saved by Hulu.

    I WTFed during the revised opening.
    I dug Ellen's waking up and initially not knowing she was a Cylon, then remembering/adapting. Well done.
    Anders is fraked up. Kara rocks even in a mask. Cottle is the man.
    The Cavil/Ellen stuff is awesome!
    "So's my XO."
    Anders is FRAKED UP! And remembers *everything*.

    And that's all before the first commercial break!

    EXCELLENT episode! Awesome, real SF - what it is to be human or other. The most "THE Episode" so far.
     
  11. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Chattanooga, TN
    Shit makes sense now. I love this show.
     
  12. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    Basestars need more security. Or centurions that don't go along with what any skinjob tells them to do. Caprica Six easily gets Sharon and Hera off a basestar with a ready raptor, and now Boomer and Ellen just calmly walk to their escape as well with yet another ready raptor.
     
  13. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She's a special Cylon so the toasters might listen to her more.
     
  14. MadBaggins

    MadBaggins Captain Captain

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    No one's forcing you to watch it. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The main thing that requires explaining now is Kara: she didn't just die and reappear, she died and reappeared with a brand new Viper that was keyed to the beacon on her wrecked Viper. So, even if she resurrected in the fashion we're used to, someone gave her this shiny new ship and plunked her down near the RTF.

    As to the skinjobs not recalling the Final Five, the clues are all there in Cavil's dialog. He talks about altering his own programming to eliminate the need to sleep. He blocks the memories of the Final Five from downloading into their bodies. I'd guess at some point his series fucked with the programming of all the other models, including the Centurions, to put in a routine that made them not able to or want access memories of the Final Five. Programmed not to think about them, isn't that how it was said?

    The one big plot hole in the whole thing was how Cavil could plant the Final Five in such a way that they would all survive the Holocaust.

    Or did he? Let's see, of the Five the only two we met in the mini were Tigh and Tyrol. I'm guessing Ellen was killed in the holocaust, and a replacement was made and dropped into the fleet (the age thing would be a possible problem, however). Tori being dropped in later I could maybe accept as well, although both she and Ellen's being inserted into the fleet begs how the Cylons did it.

    Starbuck finding Anders on her crazy trip back to Caprica is pretty coincidental, too.

    I could buy all of this if it's revealed that there is, in fact, some cosmic string pulling going on. If it's "God's" doing, then that's fine. Minus that, it's pretty unbelievable.

    If the "Head" characters were around on Earth, then it'd be weird if they were "Daniel", since the Five later create him.

    Oh, yeah, and finally, who's been established as having seen the Head characters? The Final Five, Caprica Six (Head Baltar), and Baltar (Head Six, Head Baltar). Others have seen visions of the Opera House, but assuming that's a separate thing, that still means the only non-Cylon to have seen a Head character is Baltar.

    Or am I missing something?
     
  16. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Cavil probably didn't care whether or not they survived the Holocaust, as long as they learned their lesson and eventually downloaded back to him, but when they did survive, he took steps to perpetuate their suffering. However, it's likely he kept tabs on the Final Five, so he knew where they were all along.

    A Cavil was with Anders' group. The raiders attacked Galactica, and Galactica had a Cylon device on it as well as Doral. He may have planted Doral and Boomer there to both sabotage Galactica and subconsciously keep tabs on Tigh and Tyrol. Tory...well, we have no clue about her. In fact, it seems conspicuous to me that, to our knowledge, he hasn't messed with her at all and she's awfully Cylon friendly. She may be the weak link among the Five, the traitor among them. Ellen said that Cavil put her on a transport himself, which intimates that he was keeping an eye on her too. So, when it became apparent that there were survivors, he took steps where he could to ensure their continued survival, and then he began taking steps to make them suffer with the rest of humanity, just to prove his point. He's a sadist, so why stop with the Holocaust, why not make them suffer further?
     
  17. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Centurions supposedly have free will now. So either Cavil has placed the limiter back on his Centurions or that Centurion that was standing near the Raptor when Sharon escaped with Ellen was complicit with Sharon. If the latter is true, I'd say Cavil is about to have a Centurion problem on his hands. Personally, that'd be poetic justice, given his flair for the dramatic. He wants to be a machine, so his machines turn on him.
     
  18. 0 of ln(kirk^3)

    0 of ln(kirk^3) Lieutenant Junior Grade

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    I voted Above Average. Nothing genius, but Cavil's scenes were really worth it.

    p.s. No love for Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek?
     
  19. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Above Average.

    I had a feeling the writers were setting up Sam as The Key to It All. I thought he'd die and download to somewhere, where he'd Know the Truth or something. This is close enough.

    Fairly awkward, tho, that so much important info was handled via yak yak yak. Not the best way to dramatize such pivotal information.

    Cavil was fun - and for the first time, a Cylon actually started acting like someone who had the mind of a robot and not a human! That was nice to see, and frustrating that we're only now seeing it.

    But as a rationale for genocide, the fact that Cavil doesn't like being human - oy! That's even stupider than I assumed it would be, when we finally learned the truth. At least now we know humanity is off the hook for any guilt regarding the Cylons. The metalheads didn't have free will before the Final Five showed up - after humanity had been "oppressing" the Cylons - and a being without free will doesn't have any right to be regarded as equal with humans anyway, so humanity did nothing wrong.

    All that boo hoo about humanity not deserving to survive from Adama et al, that was just what my gut told me it was - nonsensical whining from shellshocked people. I guess it's understandable that they wouldn't be thinking clearly, having been victimized as they were.
     
  20. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    For a machine who complains about being human, Cavil sure does like the sex.