Battlestar Galactica 4x14: "Blood on the Scales"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Feb 6, 2009.

?

Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    79.6%
  2. Above Average

    17.0%
  3. Average

    2.4%
  4. Below Average

    0.3%
  5. Poor

    0.7%
  1. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    That would be an effective counter-argument. But once you start hagling over definitions of leftist ideology, you start to have a harder time defining Zarek in those terms. At least if you take a look at his development over four seasons, as well as his implied background before the series.
     
  2. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just say NO to drugs. The word you want is dragged. :)
     
  3. Thor Damar

    Thor Damar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, having just watched this episode not an hour and half ago, I can state that I was right to vote excellent on this. Truly a great episode in the saga.

    The Good: Felix Gaeta and Tom Zarek, one believed what he was doing was right the other wanted to take the Presidency. Both where bitter broken men driven to the take extreme action by the Failure of the Adama/Roslin administration. They did terrible things, which in the end doomed them both but the way the actors portrayed them was poetry in motion.

    Baltar giving a frak about the rest of Humanity and his reconciliation with Gaeta. (And it was a nice touch to have him there at the end)

    Adama was great and was as ever the Old Man.

    The Bad: Roslin, Gods that screeching little speech of hers was awful! The only good thing she did was to stop the Clyons from fleeing the Fleet.

    The Trial was a utter joke. A one Judge kangaroo court, Ye Gods.

    Cheesy Moment: Where the Frak where all those people hiding the whole time?


    Looking Forward to Next week!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  4. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I use the work snuck too... it's a Southern thing. :lol:
     
  5. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    I'm not clear on whether stj has even seen these two episodes, and if not, why he feels justified in commenting on them in such specifics.
     
  6. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

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    stj definitely didn't see last weeks episode, as he made a point out of saying in his post at the time. (For the record, he spent the evening watching Numb3ers instead.) That didn't stop him from making a detailed analysis of the episode and sweeping generalizations about the fans who watched it, though.

    I can hazard a guess as to the "why," but that would involve calling him something we're not supposed to. Let's just say it rhymes with "scroll" (as in "sacred scrolls of Pythia") and leave it at that.
     
  7. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^When dealing with that kind of person, you have to quote the sources. My apologies for the tedium.

    My first post---
    ---which is a simple question about the forum's views on one character, not the entire episode.

    My second post---
    ---in the first paragraph summarizes the views expressed in the thread, which cannot be reprehensible. The last paragraph was a comparison of a story development with historical reality. Italics added because that was what most of the to and fro was about.

    In other words, the implication that I was going on about the episode is factually false. The implication that there was any question about the "justification" is also false. Given how factually challenged the poster is, I wonder how he feels justified in posting.

    If reminding people how stupid the Zarek character was in Bastille Day makes his development seem equally stupid, or a simple reality check makes the massacre seem like silly melodrama, that's tough. The BSG producers should have written better.

    As to the pathetic efforts to rebut the obvious, the least important are the posts about the old BSG fans, etc. I've never seen that guy waste an orginal thought on the Internet yet, and he's running true to form. On a personal note, grownups should display some sort of self respect.

    As to the defenses of Eick and Moore, I haven't said anything here about them. Unless some of you are on the payroll I don't know why you need to bring them up. But Communist Party members making movies didn't make them Communist movies. By the same logic, "liberal" producers making a TV series doesn't make it "liberal." Unfortunately I have to put liberal in scare quotes because some people try to redefine liberal as leftist. Conservatives would have it so.

    In Bastille Day, the responses of the characters, especially the emphasis on Dualla's, clearly indicated that Zarek was not a McVeigh analog. Misreading that way is so off the wall as to raise suspicion about its sincerity.

    Last, the deceptive confusion between coup, revolution and civil war, aided by selectively ignoring the point (despite being repeated!) about the absurdity of starting with such a massacre means comments about the Bolshevik Revolution or the Cuban Revolution or the French Revolution are red herrings. I will note that trying to redbait the French Revolution is pretty far right. I suggest David Andress The Terror as a rewarding study, however.
     
  8. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Why don't you define "liberal" as leftist? It's true that the American "Left" is much more centrist than political parties of the Left in other countries, but if "liberal" is not analogous to the Left and "conservative" is not analogous to the Right, what's your frame of reference?

    I'm no expert on the French Revolution. Would love to read that book if I have the chance. I do draw exception to the charge of "red baiting," however. In that it was a revolution that violently overthrew the conservative monarchy in favor of liberal democracy.

    Comments about starting with such a massacre are irrelevant, since the coup/revolution (Gaeta and Zarek themselves disagree on what they have embarked upon) doesn't start with a massacre of any kind. There's a few isolated incidents of violence in the beginning, but no massacre. That happens later (eleven civilians are killed).

    Speaking of the so-called "deceptive" confusion between civil war, revolution, and coup d'etat, what definitions are you using? Tell me why my post is stupid, not that it is stupid.
     
  9. Pindar

    Pindar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Romo Lamkin for President
     
  10. Thor Damar

    Thor Damar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seconded:cool:
     
  11. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Only if he doesn't kill us with his pen.
     
  12. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not after the cat thing.
     
  13. Kchunda

    Kchunda Commander Red Shirt

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    ^ I'm glad this whole thing took place in just one day. Nobody said that they would feed his poor dog. . .

    P.S. FINALLY the podcast is out!
     
  14. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Jake for Vice President
     
  15. Thor Damar

    Thor Damar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^"Yes we CANine!":)
    ( Sorry for the awful pun)
     
  16. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Don't worry will burn you later.
     
  17. Johnny Rico

    Johnny Rico Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "No...not now...not ever....I'm coming for all of you!!!"

    Gave me chills...
     
  18. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Ignored for good reason, because that's not what happened in the episode. Which you would know if you had seen it.

    Granted he made only a token effort to be accepted as the new President before giving the order, but that effort and the other surrounding circumstances change the context of the event somewhat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  19. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Don't be absurd. That would require that stj stop viewing every single thing related to politics ever created as being part of some vast anti-Leftist conspiracy. He couldn't pretend to be a victim if he did that.
     
  20. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Socialist and Communist would be leftist. The insistence on falsifying descriptors like Left arises from the need to pretend there is a significant range of acceptable opinion in the US.

    The French king's absolute monarchy was overthrown in 1789, while the Reign of Terror was organized in 1793, after fears of invasion and treason reached a peak in the seemingly imminent conquest of France. The Bolshevik Revolution occurred after the Tsar had thrown away millions of lives in its predatory war. Stalin's collectivization campaign didn't take place for another ten years and the Yezhoshchina was even later than that. I doubt the bloodshed after the triumph of the Cuban Revolution has never reached the levels of normal bloodshed by most Latin American governments. The Mexican government's massacres during the Olympics alone may have exceeded the death toll after the Cuban Revolution.

    Despite the filthy prejudices of small and ignorant minds like Starship Polaris'[/i], the blood shed by leftist coups and revolutions was never the immediate result of the crazy schemes' of doctrinaire ideologues. They were always developments from previous violence by others, fear of defeat by moral enemies or, in the case of Stalin's purges and the Cultural Revolution, faction fights unleashing forces beyond control.

    Yet Zarek was portrayed as resorting to indiscriminate mass slaughter, unprovoked by threats, disdaining all alternatives, the moment he had a chance. Of course it matters who starts that kind of violence. I don't think you honestly believe it doesn't. Nor do I see how you can imagine the mere passage of a few hours or days makes a difference.

    A coup d'etat would be expected to be attended by minor violence. A massacre like Zarek's would be a red flag for a specially heinous regime.

    More violence, after other violence, horrible as it still is, is also the way the world has worked for far too long. Leftwing violence after such simply isn't remarkable. On the other hand, the El Salvadoran massacres of the Thirties, the Betancourt's massacres in Venezuela in the Forties, the Dirty War in Argentina, the AUC death squads in Colombia, Pinochet's massacres in Chile, the junta's slaughters in Brazil, the massacre of the Communards, Suharto's massacres in Indonesia, Chiang Kai-Shek's massacres of Communists in Shanghai and Nanjing, the massacre of the Viennese workers in 1937, the White Terror under the Directory in France---trying to equate the routine murder of as many "enemies" as possible, the right wing's favorite tactic, to the violence of leftists? It can only be called stupid (an act of kindness) or called despicable. Young people might have heads still stuffed full of nonsense, but alleged grownups should know enough not to believe the Ronald Reagan version of history.

    No doubt many or most you think this is all just taking out the trash. In addition to ignoring the huge numbers of right wing murders (hundreds of thousands in Indonesia alone!) is by surreptitiously including casualties caused by prolonged wars like WWI and WWII; casualties of civil wars against the ancien regime; famines (the special pleading here is simply contemptible---try arguing that the British Empire massacred the Irish in the Great Famine!) and casualties of civil wars within the new regime, such as the Cultural Revolution or the collectivization campaign in the USSR.

    The latter was a peasant rebellion, in many ways like Pugachev's or Stenka Razin's. As such, it wasn't just hapless masses tormented by crazed ideologues (Stalin was notoriously the "practical" guy vs. the ideological Trotsky!) There were thousands of CP militants killed. And of course Stalin killed even more. Anyone who could seriously compare that with rounding up people and shoving them into gas chambers is just disgusting.

    PS The US has spent hundreds of billions of dollars killing millions of people in wars for decades, against leftists. Not noticing is really thick.