Battlestar Galactica 4x14: "Blood on the Scales"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Feb 6, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    79.6%
  2. Above Average

    17.0%
  3. Average

    2.4%
  4. Below Average

    0.3%
  5. Poor

    0.7%
  1. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I dunno, where they left off, seemed like she might put a few bullet holes in him herself.

    I was thinking it would just make it all that much worse. She's never handled self-loathing particularly well. :rommie: Could this be a long-delayed sign of emotionally maturity from her?!?

    I thought Zarek looked happy, as though this was the death he'd always expected and wanted. Gaeta was just thinking, "wow, I frakked that up." I gotta watch that scene again (and many others!)
     
  2. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, she's not sure what she is herself, so that would probably mean she can't consistently be angry with Sam for being a Cylon. Sam didn't know he was a Cylon until recently. Starbuck hasn't told Sam what she found on Earth. So, now, she's behaving very like Sam did when he found out he is a Cylon.
     
  3. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Then why leave blank spots for themselves in the numbering system?

    We have names for models 1-6 and 8.

    He may have been happy. I just got the impression they were thinking different thoughts and Zarek's was along the lines of "Gaeta, you really frakked this up..."
     
  4. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I read it as the two of them sharing a moment of "Well, we gave it our best shot. Good show, buddy," before having their heads blown off. :p
     
  5. Sharr Khan

    Sharr Khan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    For all we know that gap is due to Cylon Significant 7 quirk as a show of respect for the unnamed unseen Five. But the reason the Five wouldn't have numbers is pretty clear and not much of a mystery if we are to take as fact that every person on Earth was a Cylon. To themselves they were/are individuals not products in need of a serial code or model attempt number.

    None of this however precludes the Seven assigning the Five numbers but I don't think its very important.

    Sharr
     
  6. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    I just had a strange, strange thought. What if the Final Five aren't the same Final Five as Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, Ellen, Tory? What if there is another wave of Cylons we don't know about behind the scenes even more?
     
  7. Mike Farley

    Mike Farley Commodore Commodore

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    Roslin wasn't elected though, was she? She lost the election to Baltar. Then, after the escape from New Caprica, Zarek--the vice president under Baltar--became president and appointed Laura VP. Zarek resigned, Laura became president, and appointed Zarek VP (all because Zarek knew Adama woud never work with him). If Secretary of Education is an apppointed position like it would be here on Earth, then apparently Laura Roslin has never been elected to any office.
     
  8. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    It seems like one too many layers of mythology for the show to handle, especially with so few episodes remaining. But I've been wrong before.
     
  9. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Since Adar asked for her resignation right before the events of the Miniseries ("Epiphanies"), it definitely sounds like the Secretary of Education is a non-elected position.

    I've made this point a few times in the past two weeks, but I'll keep making it. Adama didn't leave Zarek with many choices. He opposed his legal assumption of power several times, and in the case of "Sine Qua Non," he did so irrationally. Zarek wasn't elected, either (Vice Presidents seem to be appointed, as we saw happen in "Colonial Day," and further reinforced by Baltar and Roslin not seeming to have a VP Candidate in "Lay Down Your Burdens"), but that was no reason to use the military as a means of circumventing democracy. Appointing Lee as an interim President (a dubious legal proposition at best, dependent on fine print and military badgering), and then having no functioning President while Roslin was dealing with the aftermath of a devastated Earth, both at the barrel of the gun, were not shining moments of democracy.
     
  10. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's plausible - if the virtual models are manifestations of an even more evolved type of Cylon one that's become purely data or what's left of the 13th tribe - the collective, disembodied consciousness of the 13th tribe that, unlike the Final Five, didn't resurrect, yet, on the other hand, they didn't cease to exist. I could buy that.

    Interestingly, on that view the holocaust that destroyed Earth could well have been deliberate, a necessary step taken by (some of) the 13th tribe. Eg. it was done in order to liberate the tribe from the physical realm through collective death and force them to move on to being pure data. That would be an interesting way to view it, and, IMO, consistent with the idea that there is something 'between life and death" that is "beautiful." That's where the 13th tribe actually is, and they are the force that's orchestrating some of these events.
     
  11. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The consensus of viewers is that Zarek fulfills the psychological imperatives established in Bastille Day?
     
  12. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Their "experiment in democracy" was over a long time ago, they just didn't realize it. When Laura, the legitimate President, wanted to go to Kobol, the military tried to overthrow her. The Quorum was almost completely ineffectual in just about everything they ever tried to accomplish. When they held elections, Roslin tried to steal the vote. Baltar won and got to rule for, what, a year? And then the Cylons showed up and basically wrecked any chance he had of a decent legacy. With him MIA after the Exodus, backroom dealings with Zarek got Laura back in the center seat. No one seemed to question this, either--the Baltar Presidency was an unmitigated disaster.

    In fact, the current situation reminds me of how New Caprica turned out. "The people" got exactly what they asked for, and lived (well, some did) to regret it. The Roslin/Adama administration is apparently the best choice because it's the only choice that has managed to keep them alive.
     
  13. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

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    Zarek's ordering the killing the Quorum reminded me of that BATMAN (1966) movie where the villains just walk into the United World security council chamber and the delegates ignore them and keeping shouting at each other...even as they are dehydrated.

    Those Quorum members were arguing right up to the point...blam!
     
  14. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    At least they died doing what apparently made them so happy. ;)
     
  15. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    His actions are certainly consistent with his character's trajectory from the beginning. What you want to mean by "psychological imperatives" you'll have to be more specific about. I haven't seen that episode in a long time. And I don't know if you can figure out a "consensus" here unless you draw up a poll. There's certainly plenty of disagreement on who was right and who was wrong (and why) in this situation.
     
  16. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    I think we can understand someone's motives without agreeing with them. Zarek was a revolutionary through and through. Would he have ever been happy being in power? I don't think so. Agitators live to agitate. But everything he did was consistent with his character and his background.

    Gaeta was more interested in justice and vindication. That was the crucial difference between them. For Zarek, all that mattered was who was left standing at the end of the day. For Gaeta, it was about being right. After so many wrongs, he thought he was the man to stand up and set things right. But he miscalculated and picked the absolute worst conspirator for what he intended to achieve.

    That said, I am very satisfied with how both of their arcs (and characters) unfolded and came to an end.
     
  17. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Above Average. Pretty darn good episode, but perhaps not up there with the 4th season premiere.

    I'm sorry the episode didn't give us the satisfaction of seeing Gaeta plead for his life before his execution.
     
  18. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think that it was a little simpler than that. Gaeta was interested in the right means, without concern for the outcome, which is why he opposed the Cylons, not because he was really afraid of them but because he saw joining forces with them as some sort of moral failing, a result of his own experiences on New Caprica. But he also believed that you cannot correct immoral means by using immoral means oneself, that just replaced one problem with another.
    Zarek was interested in right outcome, without concern for the means. He actually did fear the cylons, and was concerned that they might sabotage ships. But, more importantly, he was concerned with maintaining liberty and ships rights, even in the face of adversity. He saw these things as being important enough to murder for, to do anything for, which is why he had no problem executing the Qurorom.

    Both were total idiots for not thinking things through.

    The fact that his leg stopped itching just before he was shot was far more satisfying. It is possible, that had this happened earlier, he wouldn't have mutinied at all.
     
  19. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

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    Nothing would have been more disgusting and demeaning as that
     
  20. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :confused: In an episode that already showed the mass slaughter of unarmed civilians?
     

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