Battlestar Galactica 4x14: "Blood on the Scales"

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Agent Richard07, Feb 6, 2009.

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Grade the episode...

  1. Excellent

    79.6%
  2. Above Average

    17.0%
  3. Average

    2.4%
  4. Below Average

    0.3%
  5. Poor

    0.7%
  1. anti-matter

    anti-matter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Quite right, no way the ship is a dying leader. The more you think of it...it becomes preposterous.

    The ship does whatever it's programed to do...leaders are visionary decision makers. Like Laura and Adama btw he could be dying too. Zarak and Felix were leaders in their own way as well.

    As far as the 'legandary' leader of the religous text saga...it's either the President or the Admiral.

    Next week some decisions will be made on those stress fractures the Chief discovered as a consequence of Zarak and Felix's actions.

    Now if the fleet discovers Nirvana because of some blanket amnesty and some miraculous contribution from the rebel Cylons that soothes the souls of the mutineers I suppose you could argue in favor of Zarak or Felix being the leader in question ...providing if Laura survives the story.

    But that is a long shot and my money is on either Laura or Adama.
     
  2. BigPharaoh

    BigPharaoh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I still don't see why adama is unwilling to forgive the mutineers but is all too happy to forgive the cylons who killed 20 billion people. i mean, its almost as if the magnitude of the crime doesn't matter, only that one involved an insult to adamas ego and the other didn't. now that the qorum is dead i guess roslin and adama will just hand out their edicts without any pretension of civilian government. more honest, i guess.
     
  3. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, another "poor" rating from poster OldSmokey

    Apparantly he joined all the way back in September 2007, and has been a busy boy since as he's made a total of... zero posts since!
    Yet of course he still checks in every week to rate the latest BSG episode. Shame he thinks every single episode is poor though. Yet he still keeps "watching" though
    What a fun guy he must be
     
  4. AJBryant

    AJBryant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm a cinema buff. :)

    I gotta tellya, though, I'm surprised you guys Oz-folk can stand the Poms or us Yanks after seeing Gallipoli, Breaker Morant, and Blood Oath.


    Tony
     
  5. Sharr Khan

    Sharr Khan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There is a distinct difference. Firstly mutiny cannot be allowed to stand in peaceful times and it certainly can't be permitted in dire times. Zarek and Gaeta turned human on human out of choice I say they got what was coming to them.

    Second, they can't be at war forever the rebel Cylons have attempted to bridge the gap, it came time for the RTF to do so as well. And who says he forgave anyone? There are practical matters which go to the alliance with the rebels. If human survival rests on Cylon tech to keep them running would you out of hate turn it away. To me that's a dumb move.

    And no there is no reason to think that Roslin-Adama are going to rule by edict. The evidence of past actions tells us they will even when they hate it subscribe to the rule of law though it might involve a bit "talking down" by Lee at times. I suspect a new Quorum perhaps one with a Cylon rep on it?

    Sharr
     
  6. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Another Excellent. Is this one the most lopsided episode vote so far?

    Now that is the Tom Zarek story I've been wanting since they introduced the character! :bolian::bolian::bolian:

    Richard Hatch did an outstanding job this episode, conveying not just Zarek's well-established qualities such as his ruthless, self-justifying Machiavellian impulse, but I think for the first time injecting a little hesitation and regret into the performance. Even he had to pause at the thought of slaughtering the Quorum, considering that they were part of the leadership who had helped everyone survive to date.

    And that smile he gave Gaeta right there at the end. WOW! :eek::eek::eek: I dunno what other people got out of it, but to me it said, "I've always known I'd die this way. Not that I want to die - if there was a way out, I'd take it in a heartbeat - but I could only have lived my life one way, and I recognize that this moment is a logical outcome of the decisions I've made for my entire adult life. And after all, I've survived longer than I had any reason to hope, so what's there to regret, really? This is a triumphant moment for me, but I do regret that you can't appreciate it like I do, because I made a crucial mistake about you. You're not a real revolutionary like me, like I wanted you to be, but I forgive you, and I hope you can forgive me, too."

    For any actor to convey all that in one wordless facial expression just demostrates the power of great acting combined with great writing. Zarek may not have had as much screen time and intensive development as other great sci fi villains like Scorpius, Dukat and Ben Linus, but he sure packed a lot in there at the end.

    Switching over to the other great performance of the evening: Laura Roslin. Holy Eyeteeth, Batman! :rommie::rommie::rommie: Frakkin' spectacular.

    No word on Anders' fate there at the end...:(...but I've been expecting one of the Final Five to die and go on a resurrection journey to...somewhere...and Sam is the most likely candidate. Tory sees her own Cylonhood in a superficial way, as a ticket to power; Tigh and Tyrol actively try to ignore it/drink it away. Only Anders seems curious about it, and willing to explore it more deeply. We have just enough time left on the meter for a good storyline for him covering all that.

    And other than Zarek's storyline and What the Frak is Up with Starbuck? that pretty much covers all the storylines I want out of this show before the end.

    The legal/ethical issues surrounding the Cylons are pretty odd and don't have good real-word parallels. The way Cylons used to work, before they started being individuals, was that they had a hive mind and were in effect, one person. All the Eights were one being, all the Sixes, etc.

    So it's like Adama is allying himself with Hitler, Goebbels, Goering, etc. - seven members of the top Nazi leadership, not rebellious Germans who are trying to stop the madness after the crime has already occurred, because there are no dissidents, just the seven leaders at the top whose minds have been distributed into multiple bodies but still function as one. Yet now, they are individuals, so it's like one of the Hitler clones underwent a total personality change and now can be trusted, because he's not at all the same person he was.

    So why not ally yourself with Hitler in this case? The problem becomes, do you punish Hitler for crimes he committed while he was essentially a different person with a different mind?
     
  7. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh I forgot to mention the best but, the whole "shove it up your ass" scene

    Gaeta- "...and you will answer for these crimes"
    Adama- "Oh yeah, I did bathe and wash them. Made their meals. I love the enemy"
    :lol: :lol:
     
  8. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Excellent.

    I'm not sure if it was as good as last week but it was definitely just as great in certain parts, like the end with Baltar and Gaeta, leading into the very well-done execution scene. This was probably the best two-parter BSG ever had and it continues a great Season 4.5.

    Even after what he did, I felt sorry for Galactica. What he had done for the fleet in the past should not be forgotten. That didn't change the end for me though. He deserved to be executed for his actions. Zarek too although they might want to give him a medal for getting rid of the useless Quoarum.

    This was a great use of the entire BSG cast, particularly the minor characters who had some great moments. Captain Kelly definitely...I thought his line that Galactica "used to be one hell of a ship" really rang home. Nice to see the return of Romo Lampkin as well.

    McDonnell's best moment was her reaction to seeing Adama at the end and James Callis was all kinds of awesome once again. Little details too like Lee screaming out "SAUL". That Six was smoking hot too.
     
  9. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've also been wanting some forward movement on the Kara-Sam thing - last time we checked in with the happy couple, Kara was still angry with Sam for being a Cylon - looks like she's getting over that now? ;)
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    At least to the extent of not wanting him to bleed to death.

    Then there's her whole problem with what she is, which might mitigate her righteous fury a bit.
     
  11. MyCylon

    MyCylon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Am I a Cylon?
    ^
    I think that's really essential in this case.
     
  12. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's a rationale behind Adama's action.

    He's not keen on the cylons but you've gone one battlestar badly in new of major repairs guarding the 39,000 survivors of the colonies. Working with the cylons means that 39,000 men and women have a chance to survive.

    Even with recycling etc, they've been in space for 4 years, things are wearing out, supplies running low, fuel running low.

    You've got Cavil's forces who would quite happy to take the Galatica and the RTF out withoug hesitation.

    In otherwords - it's matter of survival. Gaeta and Zarack threatened that survival.
     
  13. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    I still think 35 ships is a lot less than it should be. That's over a thousand people per ship, ignoring the obviously larger crews on Galactica and Zephyr - although there are smaller ships in the fleet too, such as the Geminon Traveller and a few of the smaller freighters.
     
  14. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Guess it depends on what you mean by spoiler freak. I for one think it's absurd that people feel those participating in this discussion should censor themselves. Further, I find that being offended by people discussing the aired previews to be a bit unfathomable.

    I've been around the Internet a long, long time. I've found the best way to avoid spoilers is to NOT go reading discussions about the topics you want to be unspoiled by.

    But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.
     
  15. scotthm

    scotthm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Finding your own dead body just makes you rethink things a bit.

    ---------------
     
  16. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    How many ships survived the escape from New Caprica?

    I'm thinking foreshadow as well. I've seen others comment thinking Cylons damaged the ship and that they look like claw marks. I'm not in agreement with that. I don't think any Cylon Centurions would have been able to get there unnoticed.

    It's understandable that human prejudice is rearing it's head. No one wants to work with Cylons, period. No one wants to ally with Cylons, period. People are not distinguishing between the Cylons as a whole and the Cylons that are currently pursuing the Fleet. Suddenly they lump Anders, Tigh, Tyrol and Tori in with the rest of the Cylons. They're the enemy! It's the same prejudice we see in real life (The Japanese/Germans/Muslums are the enemy - He's Japanese/German/Muslum - He must be the enemy).

    I'm not saying give the Cylon base star a seat on the Quorum (well, maybe I am but I advocate a complete resturcture of the Quorum based along fleet lines and not outdated Colonial Colony lines). Truce and mutual defense pacts aren't the same as alliances. It's a sound tactical decision to include the Basestar and all her guns on the side of the Fleet.

    I'm also not seeing Galactica as the dying leader. It's fairly clear in my mind that it's Roslin. She's still dying of the wasting disease, after all. She did lead them to Earth. The Pythian prophecies are complete. Or are they?

    I've got to disagree about the more than one Earth thing. Yes, there CAN be more than one Earth. Yes, the fleet CAN settle on any life bearing world and call it Earth. That doesn't mean they will. If the fleet were to find some other planet, settle on it, call it Earth and then, many centuries later, have that civilization turn into OUR civilization then I feel that would be a disservice to us viewers and totally out of context of the story. The same way that I've always felt that Baltar could NEVER be a Cylon because, from the story standpoint he was responsible for betraying his people to the Cylons. If he's a Cylon then his character doesn't betray his own people.

    My question, though, is this - have they jumped away or are they still in the Sol solar system? Outside of the most recent webisodes I've not seen any on screen evidence - either scene or dialog - that indicates they fleet has jumped away.

    Unfortunately we never got to see if the Quorum were cowards that wanted to side with the Cylons or not since Zarek had them killed.

    It was obvious to the Quorum and the rest of the fleet that Zarek was operating in an illegal fashion. They had heard Roslin brodcast at least twice (counting last week). They knew the duely elected president was still alive and finally retaking charge. Then they see Zarek come in and imply that he was the new president. It was obvious they were in the middle of a crisis. The Quorums duty was to act in the way they did this episode. They needed to discuss and debate what was going on. Not a long, lengthy debate but they still needed to decide which way was up.

    Even if Zarek was in the right the first thing that needed done was the resolution of President Roslin. Until removed from office she was the duely elected president. A coup or revolution or mutniy was not the legal means of removing her from office, either.

    1. Zarek started the lie that Tigh was dead. Everyone believed Zarek.

    2. She finally showed leadership ability. A bit too late but she finally did show it. Had she and Adama showed effective leadership all along none of this would have happened.
    While not killed, Jason Borne used a pen to fight an assassin in the first Borne movie.

    I was able to find a link on http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Survivor_count

    Someone mentioned the looks between Gaeta and Zarek at the end. I took those looks to mean the characters were thinking the exact opposite of each other, yet didn't know it (or maybe Zarek did). Zarek was shaking his head as if saying "this is wrong, we lost, you're a stupid loser Gatea and now you've gotten me killed" whereas Gaeta was nodding and maybe thinking "yep, I deserve this, it's an appropriate end."

    They may have been random but I'm still at a loss as to why the final five Cylons, being much older than the rest of the models, are not numbered 1-5.
     
  17. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know, I just remembered that Apollo "died" and came back to life in the TOS episode "War of the Gods pt 2."
     
  18. Sharr Khan

    Sharr Khan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As Tyrols flashback to a whole and healthy Earth life indicates (All those people in the background were Cylons.) Final Fivers don't have numbers, cause well its likely they were born, at least in that first life as individuals. Why would Ellen, Saul, Anders, Tory, and Tyrol assign themselves numbers?

    Sharr
     
  19. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    I'm more interested about the prophecy (if they are still relevant) about the leader who will guide the fleet to the promised land but won't live to make it there. What is the promised land? Another homeworld? The end of the Cylon threat?
     
  20. TheArsenal

    TheArsenal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Episodes like that? That's why I watch this show.

    Excellent.
     

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