BABYLON 5 - First time watching series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well the question as to 'Why The Minbari surrended at the Battle of Line, on the eve of victory' is one of the big questions of the first season. The Pilot "The Gathering" alludes to certain events in "And The Sky Full of Stars..". And the TV Movie "In The Beginning" expands on events glimpsed in "And The Sky Full of Stars..." But I would recommend watching that after you watched S5. But I'm not going to say anything else to avoid spoilers.
     
  2. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    ...is insane. --JMS
    I know I say this every time we have a new viewer but I *so* envy you your first two viewings of the series, Dreamer! Looking forward to your further posts.

    Jan
     
  3. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    It gives you a reason to look forward to the forgetfulness of old age, so you can view it all again, seemingly for the first time :devil:
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ...or you could drink more. :p
     
  5. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    The Human-Minbari enmity was covered more in the Gathering pilot, I guess it is a little absent in these eps...

    War Prayer and Believers are two of my least favorite episodes.
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Believers irks me a great deal.
     
  7. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    The Human-Minbari enmity should really be much more important in the first season. The two groups of people should nearly always be at each others throats. I think it would have been more realistic if Sinclair had started the season as someone who hated Minbaris because of his time in the war, but put that aside to work at peace. Maybe have his friendship with Delenn develop along the way.

    At this point the so called huge war between humans and Minbari didn't leave much of an impact. It feels like it took place 50 years ago instead of 10.

    Look at G'Kar and Londo's treatment of each other. It actually feels more real because of how much G'Kar resents Londo's people for invading Narn world(s) in the past.

    Is it right for parents to refuse life saving surgical treatment for their child because of their beliefs? I don't think so, but of course I'm only applying that to real life.

    All the different alien races really complicate things. All four major ambassadors G'Kar, Londo, Delenn, and Kosh refused to get involved for different reasons. Sinclair also refused because of his policy.

    But the parents killing the boy was unnecessary. They should have been charged with murder since the crime took place on the station. For some reason the parents aren't mentioned again after that scene which bugged me. I think the episode could have still worked if the boy had ended up as an outcast, and shunned by his race. The writing could have still saved the boy, but at a big price.

    At least Sinclair had to balls to ask Shon whether he wanted to live or follow his faith and die. I think Sinclair would have allowed the surgery if the boy had wanted to live.

    Janeway never cared about Tuvix's desire to live, and literally shoved Tuvix on the transporter screaming "You die now!". Tuvix was dead the moment he appeared on the transporter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not condoning the parents' actions, but I'm not comfortable assuming that my beliefs should somehow take precedence over others' either. Moral superiority is a very dangerous place to go.

    I thought Franklin's behavior wasn't exactly stellar either. I wouldn't have been surprised if he'd had his license revoked for what he did here.

    Ah, screw it. I would have liked it if instead of the parents killing the kid, the kid killed himself instead.
     
  9. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Sinclair had a good point about staying neutral through the whole thing. I'm assuming he always has to listen to everyone when it comes to these matters. The station seems much more of a community, than an Earth Alliance space station commanded by an Earth commander.

    Franklin's level of insubordination was crazy. He really should have just followed his orders, instead of going behind Sinclair's back and against the parents wishes.

    I was actually expecting that to happen. The kid already looked dead the moment he was leaving with his parents. I can't believe that they didn't suspect the boy was still in any danger after all that, they should have gone all the way put him in an orphanage for his own safety or something.
     
  10. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    It took guts to have the parents kill the boy, especially back in the 1990s. Star Trek never would've killed the boy, he would have been healed and forgiven through. Maybe, they would've been gutsy enough to have him become an outcast (And/or kill himself), like in that one episode where Riker contaminates the androgynous 3rd procreation partner (Progenitor?), but, they would never have had the guts to play it out like B5 did.

    B5 is the UN in Space, you have to respect other cultures and not interfere or impose your values, you have to choose those battles imposing your will carefully and be willing to ride them as far as they lead.
     
  11. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    ...is insane. --JMS
    I loved Franklin's reply to Sinclair, though:

    [/LEFT]

    The best part about this episode is that everybody had a valid point and they all got to make it. No easy answers, but great questions.

    Jan
     
  12. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    There is distrust, but the Minbari are still very isolationist and don't intermingle with humans or other races. It's that isolationism which makes it look like there is not much conflict. With Narns and Centauri the conflict is all in the open because the two are not very isolationist. After the Minbari war, they more or less drew back to their space and haven't interfered with Earth and Earth stays out of their space. However, there is a lot of distrust and suspicion within their own peoples and between each other due to how the war ended.
     
  13. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    And you will see the interactions that do occur between Humans and Minbari will often address the enmity and distrust
     
  14. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Believers is one of the first season's best episodes.
     
  15. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^I might agree with that if Franklin didn't come across as such a self-righteous, insensitive, morally superior prick.

    It's probably good that I saw this episode out of order, as it might have taken me a long time to have any affection for the character otherwise after this.

    I'd be very curious to see how a Dr. McCoy, EMH or Phlox type would have handled this. I suspect Crusher would have behaved similar to Franklin, really.
     
  16. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    My main problem with Believers is the alien dialogue and their little made up culture was just so ridiculous sounding and stilted and silly that it robs the situation of any real pathos.
     
  17. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Episode 11: Survivors
    Garibaldi is framed for an explosion on the station. Now on the run he must prove his innocence.

    B5 does "The Fugitive". A showcase episode for Garibaldi with him stripped of his rank and desperately looking for answers. Obviously, I never suspected he was responsible for the attack but it was interesting to learn about his past a drunk, and the relationship he had with Lianna's family. There was a nice look at the criminal underworld, and funny scene with the alien praying mantis still believing Garibaldi was still a cop while he was on the run.

    Episode 12: By Any Means Necessary
    After an accident, the dock workers demand better working conditions or they'll go on strike. Sinclair is forced to choose sides.

    Apparently, this episode's "workers go on strike" plot was so good it was reused years later on NuBSG.

    This was a filler episode in which we get to learn more about the grunts working on the station. The representative sent by the senate was pure mustache twirling dbag, whose only purpose was escalate things so it could turn into a bloodbath. It ends well enough when Sinclair accepts all the demands from the workers.

    The B plot involves G'Kar desperately trying to buying a flower from Londo for an important Narn ritual. It was humorous with Londo never intending to sell it. These two guys are really dicks when it comes to dealing with each other.

    Episode 13: Signs and Portents
    Londo receives a highly valuable Centauri artifact known as the Eye, raiders increase their attacks near the station, and a mysterious man in black is going around asking the four alien ambassadors about what they want. Sinclair meets a Centauri woman who tells him the station will blow up in the future.

    Mythology episode?

    It was interesting to learn more about the Centauri government and that an Emperor exists. The increased raider attacks near the station end up being connected to the artifact, it turns out to be staged so the people in the ship and the Lord Centauri could steal it. But they are blown real up really good by a huge black menacing alien ship, that wants the artifact back in Londo's hands or thinks it's important that Londo stays as ambassador.

    The mysterious man going around asking the four leading ambassadors about what they wanted felt like a devilish kind of character.

    G'Kar wants revenge against the Centauri for what they did to his people.
    Delenn is overwhelmed and immediately tells the man to leave.
    Londo wants the Centauri to be restored to full power.
    Kosh confronts the man, and there seems to be a very long tense moment between the two. It seems the Vorlon can see what the man really is and tells him to leave.

    My theory is the man was there to learn about what the four alien races want. He might have some mental powers to get everyone to tell him the truth. His ship which destroyed the main raider starship, seem quite powerful. Is he from a hostile alien race perhaps?

    Sinclair tells Garibaldi about his recovered memory ("And the Sky Full of Stars") of being captured by the Minbari, and asks for help to learn more. It is discovered that his appointment as Commander of the station was no accident, the Minbari government really really wanted him in charge over more qualified military personnel for some reason. It's now becoming obvious the Minbari have some strange plans for Sinclair.

    Episode 14: TKO
    Garibaldi's old friend comes aboard the station, and has a plan to become a big shot boxer again by challenging an alien boxing champion.

    B5 does "Rocky". The only thing missing was a montage with the "Gonna Fly Now" music playing during Smith's training scenes. It seems a boxing episode was so interesting, that nuBSG writers decided to also do a boxing episode years later. :lol:

    Pretty weak episode. This episode didn't really have any important character development or move to plot in any significant way. The final boxing fight was cool at least, but the writers just HAD to rip off "Rocky" by having the fight end in a draw. This was probably the biggest side story compared to most of previous episodes of the season.
     
  18. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Didn't seem any more absurd than Islam or other mainstream religions to me.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    TKO had no important character Development? Did you miss the Ivanova part of the episode?
     
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Oh I remember that. It was good. But I think the writers waited too long to have her deal with it, that it lost some of its impact. It should have been in the episode after her father died.