B5 downbelow question.

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by trekkiedane, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    Whenever I've watched B5 I've wondered about "downbelow" -The name itself (twice!) states that it is under something, under the inner surface of the station itself is how I read it.

    So far, so good.

    In a rotational gravity environment the perceived downward pull will increase as you move away from the centre of rotation.

    The smaller the radius is the higher the rotational speed needs to be in order for the 'gravity' on the inner surface to feel 'normal'.

    When the rotational speed is high, the perceived gravitation will increase significantly for each meter you go below the point of ~1 g.

    I'm assuming Babylon 5 is built to let people not experience any discomfort due to the difference in perceived gravitation between their heads and their feet.

    But the force would be very different if you were to find yourself on the second floor of a 'building' from that you would feel in the basement of the same place.

    Assuming the level of the interior surface is equal to 1 g, the 'gravity' in downbelow would be tremendously higher -to the point of making movement significantly different (walking, throwing stuff, falling over...).

    Or of course, vice versa: on the inside of the hull the perceived pull outwards is 1 g -making the interior surface one with significantly less than 1 g outwards (downwards!) pull!



    Did JMS ever speak about this discrepancy? Or is it just a Babylon 5-suspension of disbelief like the Heisenberg-compensators of Trek?

    Whenever I watch B5 it irks me that the internal gravity of the whole thing (with the few scenes taking place near the centre of rotation as the only exceptions) is 'nominal'!

    Any links to anything that tries to explain this is greatly welcomed. -as are speculations :)
     
  2. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    ...is insane. --JMS
    This is the best I could find.

    Jan
     
  3. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    It's the suspension of disbelief thingy; same way as they had jump gates. In most science fiction you can't be choosy about what you swallow whole. They did get the idea that there is no gravity in the centre right, except that people on the train aren't floating around. Sheridan only started floating after the train blew up.
     
  4. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    [Jan]^Thanks a lot! :bolian:

    It would seem I'll just have to do the math myself [​IMG]

    Oh well, it'll keep till I'm finished with my current 'marathon' viewing of the series!

    Deckerd; yeah, they walked quite normally in that 'keep your hands on the handrail'-area up there as well!
     
  5. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    On the beach
    The perceived acceleration in metres per second per second is given by r*w*w, where r is the distance in metres from the axis of rotation and w is the angular velocity in radians per second (2*pi radians per second = 1 complete revolution per second). 1G = 9.81 m/s/s so you can get 1G with r = 98.1m and w= 0.31 radian/s (about 1 revolution per 20 seconds). I think...
     
  6. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    ^Thanks :)

    I haven't done this sort in decades -in fact: not since school :rommie:

    I did contemplate doing something similar to figure out the actual sizes of Iain M. Banks orbitals though ;)

    ETA: hey! new name!!!-?
     
  7. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Here's another post from Joe about it:
     
  8. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    Not that I don't believe your quote from Joe, Joe, but could you please point me to a place where I might find it!
     
  9. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    ...is insane. --JMS
  10. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    On the beach
    As I said, the effective gravity is directly proportional to the distance from the axis of rotation -- simple as that.
     
  11. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    Jan^Thank you very much! - the only B5 resource I knew was 'The Lurker's Guide' -this seems like just a place for me :drool:

    And now it's onto There All the Honour Lies for me!

    Asbo; when it comes to circles, that is the secret -I just haven't done any of that sort of thing for decades!
     
  12. Mistral

    Mistral Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Location:
    Between the candle and the flame
    Velcro Pants?

    Velcro shoes, ala 2001?
     
  13. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    Weird as it might sound: I never bought that scene! -why didn't Kubrick just have her in some harness, pulling her slightly off the ground as it was filmed?
     
  14. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    The thing that always annoyed me was that the bridge was on a non-revolving part of the base, yet everyone miraculously remained stuck to the floor. The docking ports could easily have been revolving since there isn't any reason why a vessel can't manoeuvre on other axes and forwards at the same time. Even sea ships move sideways and forwards when docking.

    Battlestar Galactica, Farscape, Firefly, SW as well as all ST just went for some kind of magical gravity which did away with physics. B5 made a really good fist of artificial gravity and then made it inconsistent.
     
  15. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    In the pilot they were all strapped into gravity harnesses.

    Then again in the pilot there was a gorilla serving drinks.
     
  16. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    On the beach
    I'm pretty sure command and control on Babylon 5 was in a rotating section.
     
  17. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    It was; this is from the opening on season 2:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the command-window is just below the main docking-bay -not that that explains the seemingly normal Earth gravity people there seemed to experience.
     
  18. Mistral

    Mistral Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2007
    Location:
    Between the candle and the flame
    I thought that was Trapper John...... :confused:
     
  19. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    Whatimeantersayis the bridge is in the centre (almost) of the forward section, where there would be little or no AG, and they're standing on the ceiling, as it were.
     
  20. trekkiedane

    trekkiedane Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Location:
    I'll let you know when I get there.
    Guessedasmuch, but again; if they can walk like n Earth surface in the 'keep you hands on the handrail at all times'-area they also could in 'command'...