Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Allyn Gibson, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well you have to understand that Scott is operating under the idea that he is above the law. So far he has threatened to murder the mayor of a city, he has used death squads to go after enemies of the X-Men approving in essence private assassinations and he has been operating his private penitentiary for those enemies that he hasn't murdered.

    So he has been doing a lot of dubious stuff and not telling anyone despite Captain America and the President publicly supporting him.

    And not to mention Emma was previously colluding with Norman Osborn when the latter was in charge of HAMMER.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You do understand that as a head of state, ruler of a country, if not ruler of a species, he is not bound by human laws, American laws or international laws unless he feels like it?

    Scott is as equally legally entitled, & no worse ethically than Castro, Pol Pot or VonDoom.
     
  3. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He is not ruler of a country. And America doesn't even formally recognize Utopia as a country.
     
  4. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    From the sounds of things, I may have to get back into the X-men. What is the best title to collect?

    I recall back when I was collecting X-titles, Scott was dead. That was about twelve years ago I think.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What is the difference between WACO and the Bay of Pigs?

    Although...

    Some wiki-entires are telling me that Osbornes Siege was a siege and not a raid because of Utopia's sovereignty.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  6. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'll admit I still haven't gotten a chance to read any Marvel stuff yet, but based on the stuff I've read on the Marvel Comics Database, and Wikipedia I'm baffled as to how Emma is still with the good guys. From what I've seen, it looks like she's constantly working with villains, and doing questionable things, but yet she's still one of the X-Men, and a "good guy".
     
  7. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Which goes to show just how far Cyclops has fallen that Magneto is even now part of the X-Men.

    Uncanny X-Men and "Wolverine and the X-Men" are the main books. Uncanny X-Force is also very good in terms of storytelling.

    Also you might want to read Grant Morrison's run on X-Men v2 and House of M. Then follow it up with Messiah Complex, Utopia and Second Coming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  8. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wolverine and the X-Men is the best ReGenesis book IMO. Also House of UIster is correct, Scott is not head of state of Utopia, and Utopia is not recognized as a country by the United States or United Nations IIRC.
     
  9. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I prefer X-Force. The whole story with DarkAngel was amazing. The new UXM is pretty good too. UNIT is really a great villain.
     
  10. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unit is pretty cool, X-Force has been awesome.
     
  11. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    If Utopia isn't a recognized entity, then why did Captain America give him a medal or something in the "Heroic Age" one shot and why does the Mayor of San Fran collaborate with him?
     
  12. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because he did a lot of good for the city including I believe fighting off an army of vampires. And the Medal of Honor was Cap backing up Cyclops and mutants in general, which seems to have backfired horribly.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The medal of Honour can only be given to an American.

    By accepting that medal, Cyclops is suggesting that he is not a utopian or THE Utopian.

    I still can't believe that Utopia is just Asteroid M with a new paint job.
     
  14. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Out today, Avengers Vs. X-Men #3:
    Ed Brubaker takes over scripting duties for this issue, and that makes a welcome change after Jason Aaron's pretentiousness on issue #2.

    Not a lot happens in this issue. We get resolution to the slugfest in issue #2. Wolverine and Captain America come to blows. And a worldwide chase begins.

    Some thoughts...

    About Captain America... When Tony Stark notices you've gone off the deep end, it's pretty bad. Cap isn't making any sort of good decisions here, and the logic behind Cap's plan vis-a-vis Wolverine isn't there.

    So, Scott has someone inside the Jean Grey School he can lean on for information. But why that person, who thoroughly hates his guts?

    Of the issues thus far, this is probably the best.
     
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I actually thought that this was one of the first examples of spot-on characterization in this event so far.

    It has nothing to do with Rachel's feelings about Scott. For one thing, Rachel is living proof that the Phoenix can be controlled by a human host. But furthermore, think about where Rachel came from-- a dystopian future where mutants lived in concentration camps at the behest of the government. She would probably look at something like the Avengers un-provoked, government-sanctioned invasion of Utopia as the beginings of something that she would rather not live through again.
    ETA: Oh, and one more thing...

    Wolverine is essentially asking Rachel to work as a hound. To do the same thing for him that those who enslaved and tortured her in her youth did. Hunt down her own kind for the government.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2012
  16. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Why does Rachel not like Scott? I haven't been keeping up with recent X comics...
     
  17. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because he had a psychic affair with Emma while still married to Jean.
     
  18. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I always found Rachel to be even more of a confusing and convoluted character than Cable ever was...
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is how Wolverine and Captain America met in 1941.

    Trying to save a chosen child from being consumed a malignant force of destruction.

    Logans list line was awesome.

    "Sorry Cap, I don't need a side kick."

    I wonder what Layla Miller has to say about this?

    She knows stuff.
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's funny to me that most of the issues of this event that I've liked have gotten bad reviews and the ones I've disliked have gotten good reviews. Just goes to show you... something I guess.

    I liked AvX 3 more than the first two. Maybe because there seemed to be a little more story and less de-compresion and mindless battling. And while, as I mentioned upthread, Rachel acted totally in character, I agree completely about how off-kilter Cap seemed. I'm glad that somebody finally said out loud to Cap that the X-Men have done nothing wrong and they have nothing to hold them on (But Stark? Really? I would have thought something like that would've come from Daredevil/Matt Murdock). It's funny. I'm siding against Cap in this event for the same reasons I stood with him in Civil War.

    Avengers Academy is a book that I buy anyway but would probably have added to my pull-list anyway for this event. As with Uncanny X-Men 11, I liked this issue more than any of the main AvX story issues. I loved the Generation Hope book and was sorry to see it end. And while Hope herself is, of course, central to AvX, AA is where we see what happened to the rest of Hope's team (And other assorted New X-Men) following "The Battle of Utopia".

    Cap puts the Academy kids in an awkward place by telling them to prevent the X-Kids from leaving, asking them to act as a police force towards kids their own age who have done nothing wrong. It's called the equivelent of "Child Protective Services", but the X-kids call it "a prison". Tigra and Hercules (In his first appearance since his own book folded. It's good to see him again-- but I didn't want to see THAT much!:alienblush:) try to make the X-kids comfortable to no avail.

    X-23, in particular is in a hard place because she joined the Academy because she didn't want to take sides in the Wolverine/Cyclops schism, but now Wolverine has dropped it right in her lap by asking her to stand guard over her former classmates and teammates. (You know, between this, what he asked Rachel to do in AvX 3, and his obvious personal bias against Cyclops, Wolverine is really being a prick in this story.)

    Overall, the Academy kids really seem to genuinely like the X-kids. It will be interesting to see where they finally wind up standing in this, particularly given the preview cover image of the Academy kids wearing Xavier School uniforms.

    I was not a fan of bringing the mind-wiped Sebastian Shaw onto Hope's team, but he steals the show here. From his remarks to Wolverine (I don't have the issue in front of me, but words to the effect of, "I understand that I beat you to a pulp once. I wish I could remember that":lol:), to his escape plan to the laugh out loud last page (A homage to a classic panel in the original Hellfire Club story). I never thought I'd ever actually say this but-- Go Shaw! :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2012

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