Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Allyn Gibson, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've read that three times now, and I still have no idea why Storm leaves like that. "You said the word 'Phoenix,' so I'm outta here, bub!" :)
     
  2. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The problem wit Bendis are two-fold
    -he lack an understanding of Marvel continuity, we have seen it multiple times (chaos magic, the back-story between Magneto and his kids, the Beyonder) and with something as continuity heavy as X-Men he butchers it as we see with his whole explanation of the Phoenix.
    -his decompression has been taken to such a laughable extreme, AvsX isnt very far from what a parody of his decompression would read like

    And secondly JRJR is probably the worst artist for this type of issue that places emphasis on conveying emotions and atmosphere. His strengths are more rooted in doing action scenes. It really just shows that Marvel rushed AvsX into production using JRJR in order to compete with DC since Perlmutter has been cutting corners all across Marvel's publishing side.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012
  3. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    i'd almost forgot about what Bendis did to the Beyonder.
     
  4. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the first issue was average. It was a contrived fight, with bad characterizations. Scott comes across as a complete psycho and I hope he isn't being set up as the villain on this story. Cap is acting like Maria Hill, who's belligerence started Civil War when she tried to arrest Cap for violating a law THAT HADN'T BEEN PASSED YET! Logan's treason is not appreciated. Despite Marvel's best efforts, Logan is an X-Man first. He is not part of the establishment but that's what they're trying to do here.

    It does look like they are ignoring large parts of the Phoenix backstory. To tell you the truth, that's fine with me. The last time the Phoenix was interesting was the Dark Phoenix Saga. When I read those books, to me it's Jean who was the Phoenix. Not an exact copy. Though having the Phoenix randomly destroy a world is a retcon to. The only world we ever saw it destroy as after she had been corrupted by Mastermind.

    As for the Avengers preview, Cap is continuing his streak of bad advice. In Avengers 24.1, he tells Vision to forget his past like he did. Uh, Cap...Vision's only been gone for maybe two years in Marvel time. Due of the sliding timeline, you spent the rest of the 20th century on ice. It's NOT the same thing.

    I've never been a fan of Ororo and the Panther (Storm has never need a relationship to define her) but T'Challa should have told Cap to mind his own fucking business. Ororo is his wife and his queen. Of course he's going to go after her.

    Carol Danvers should be the voice of reason. I'm sure the writers of Marvel have forgetten this but she spent months with the team after she lost her powers and her memories.
     
  5. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    @Allyn Storm left because she's on Scott's Extinction team, that was her decision during Schism. You really should read it and ReGenesis. She left because the Avengers were planning an assault on her home and to extract a person she has fought to protect. As I have mentioned before, this event deals with issues and plots that go back at least to when Bendis took over on Avengers and for the X-Men maybe back to Morrison's run since Schism and ReGenesis have touched on many creative runs. I would suggest reading those first because you won't really understand most of the stuff going on here.

    Marvel hasn't done a good job of making this event reader friendly for those who aren't familiar with the two teams. They're doing a rudimentary job of explaining things in like one dialogue box when really a fan needs to go back and catch up themselves if they haven't been reading. Just my advice.
     
  6. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I am actually aware of where she came down in Schism and ReGenesis. Like I've said, I have to write often about the X-Men at work. Not so much about the Avengers. :)

    The problem with that scene, however, is that Storm leaves before Captain America says what his plan in. He just mentions Phoenix, and she storms out. (Pun unintended.) After she's gone, then Captain America says that the Avengers are going to extract Hope from Utopia. (The pages don't quite work in the CBR preview. Storm is reacting on page 2 to what Cap says on page 3 with the way the two-page spread works.) So we have Cap saying, "Who here knows what the Phoenix is?" and then Storm buggers off.

    I appreciate the advice, I really do. But I'm only planning on picking up AVX and AVX Versus. In a sane world, that should be sufficient. :)

    One thing that would help, that comics have gotten away from, are the text boxes that refer readers back to old issues. "Captain America is talking about what happened in Pet Avengers #4!" That sort of thing. Comic books used to be hypertext-ish, in a way. They're not anymore.
     
  7. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My apologizes again. I keep forgetting which you aren't familiar with...but my advice still stands for those who haven't been reading. This very much is a culmination of years worth of story lines and issues between characters and teams. Yes the editorial reminder boxes would be helpful in event books, Amazing Spider-Man still has them, don't recall if they are doing them in other books still.

    I'm also planning up picking up AVX and the fight book...until the latter becomes boring. LOL. I also see your point about Storm's reaction. I'm assuming she is returning to Utopia after hearing about the attack and her reaction of "Goddess" doesn't help matters either. That's another thing about Bendis' reaction. Plus you have Peter there with a goofy look on his face!! Ughh Bendis. I'm really tempted on skipping his arc and waiting for the next writer. I'll be buying this on trade anyway.
     
  8. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I seriously miss the captions. They explain things better and encourage you to buy and read old issues! What's wrong with that? At what point did they do away with that? Like 2004?
     
  9. StarTrek1701

    StarTrek1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay.. so this is the new flagship story arc of Marvel right now, yes? So could someone tell me why the artwork was so freakishly horrible on AvX #1?? :wtf:
     
  10. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was a rush job. JRJR is the fastest artist Marvel has so they had him draw it so they could have it out early.
     
  11. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Axel Alonso talks about the choice of JRJR at Comic Book Resources:
     
  12. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He doesn't mention the problem that he is under intense pressure by his bosses to boost comic book sales while keeping costs lay. The last round of layoffs there in the bullpen hasn't helped in that regards.

    If they had used Coipel or Adam Kubert for the first few, there would have been schedule problems for their later issues.
     
  13. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Very true. And it's not the Mouse that's driving that, it's Isaac Perlmutter. That article also mentions some of the things that Marvel does that sabotage their own financial success.

    Good point. :)
     
  14. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I have to agree as well. I have absolutely loved JrJr's on "Kick-Ass 2" (it fits the tone of the story IMO and was even better than his work on the first volume) but have disliked his Marvel U work for awhile now for some reason I can't explain lol. I'm really looking forward to Copiel and Kubert's work on this.

    EDIT: Oh wait...we're talking about scheduling issues lol. Bad job on me.
     
  15. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, having Coipel or Adam Kubert drawing AVX at the start would have lead to a Final Crisis-like shipping schedule. :)
     
  16. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I agree on that as well. Too bad they're not using Humberto Ramos or Steve Epting. I know Ramos is not for everyone and I used to hate his art style, but absolutely have come to love his work on Amazing Spider-Man! I don't know what has changed in between his last time with the character but I really adore his current Spidey work and Epting has been fantastic with the FF.
     
  17. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No complaints from me about the art. I've always loved JRjr's work.
     
  18. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    JRJR's art is hit or miss these days. he used to be really great. last few years its like he just phones it in.
     
  19. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Agreed.
     
  20. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's more of a problem because he is paired with Bendis. JRJR's current style really de-emphasizes facial expressions and is really good for action narratives, but Bendis's entire thing is decompression and dialogue that requires an emphasis on subtle emotional expressions and reactions that JRJR can't hope to capture with his style. It's why JRJR does so well with Millar, Millar writing is lots of action and over the top stuff.

    The ideal arrangement should have been Kubert for the first few issues by Bendis, but that would have taken them a year to get those issues out.