Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Allyn Gibson, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's been pretty awesome actually...especially Wolverine and the X-Men. Schism was really well written, although somewhat contrived and forced IMO given where Utopia was just before this in terms of unity. Some fans have wondered due to this event how long the schism will last?
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. Sounds more like a lame plan to keep Wolverine front and center as the main hero of the X-Men world.
     
  3. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Cyclops going Magneto's way is pretty much semi-justified from his pov since he has to resort to these tactics to keep the few mutants that are now around from extinction. Of course from a neutral perspective none of that justifies the tortures, assassinations ,death squads and mutilation of children.

    But the rest of the stuff such as Wolverine going Xavier's way is bullshit. But then Jason Aaron's grasp is Wolverine is very tenuous.
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Makes me glad I stopped reading X-Men.
     
  5. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    the direction Cyclops has taken the past few years hasn't bothered me. the drama of Schism felt very forced. suddenly Wolverine is upset about putting kids in danger? yeah. sure. and having students call him Professor Logan just stubs my toe.
     
  6. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's a very simplistic way of explaining things. Cyclops is in a unique and precarious postion. He has to think like the leader and protector of a dying species, not just the leader of a highly-trained team of super-heroes. While at the same time, he is sending a clear message to the rest of the world that the X-Men are NOT to be fucked with. And yes, some of his decisions of late have been iffy, but his primary goal has been still to save the world for mutants, not conquer it for mutants as Magneto would have tried.

    However, there was a funny scene in Uncanny #1 in which Storm (who would never go along with Cyclops if he were truly going down Magneto's path) in which she asks every member of Scott's Extinction Team (Cyclops, Storm, Emma, Namor, Magneto, Colossus, Magik and Hope) to raise their hand if they have never had a period of their career that could be defined as primarily "Super-Villain", and when Scott raises his hand, Storm asks him if he's sure about that. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  7. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That was a great scene from that issue :) Turtletrekker well said about Scott as well, couldn't have done better myself. Despite my problems with the book and the dour tone, I have enjoyed Scott's evolution as a character. I just think right now he is becoming blinded and overwhelmed by his responsibilities. He has surrounded himself with "yes" people now...even Emma hasn't really questioned a decision from him in a while. This set's a dangerous precedent for me. Logan was one of the few who were willing to say "no" to Scott IMO.
     
  8. Captain Qwert Jr

    Captain Qwert Jr Captain Captain

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    Her return happened in Avengers:The Children's Crusade, Allan Heinberg's end to his strange, little throwback of a team, the Young Avengers, and in that series there were resets, and retcons aplenty. But since, no writer at Marvel keeps up with what happens in other books who knows if any of it counts.

    As for AvX, unless, I hear that the 'heroes' were arrested, fairly tried and justly executed, I dont think I will be returning to Marvel anytime soon.
     
  9. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Equally well said. It's true that Scott has developed a bit of tunnel vision regarding certain things. And it's not lost on me that even as I defend Scott from accusations of villainy and following Magneto's path, that in the previews for AvX #1 we see Magneto himself making the comparison.:eek: Perhaps it will be turn out to be true in Scott's case, what they say about good intentions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
  10. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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  11. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, I do. But I'm not planning on saying anything about it until next Wednesday. :)
     
  12. ReadyAndWilling

    ReadyAndWilling Fleet Captain

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    why are wolverine and spiderman on the side of the avengers? wolverine has always been the flag bearer of the x-men behind cyclops and the professor.
     
  13. ReadyAndWilling

    ReadyAndWilling Fleet Captain

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    do we have a list of who'll be on each side? i can see the juggernaut on one of the pictures.
     
  14. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I will say this about issue #1. There's a roll call page that shows who is on which side, Avengers or X-Men, and on that page they have Wolverine and Beast straddling the line between the two.

    As for Wolverine and Cyclops, they don't see eye to eye and they've gone in different directions.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    IIRC, that's Colossus in Juggernaut's helmet. Not sure of the details on why.
     
  16. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  17. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    Spider-Man and Wolverine have been on the Avengers since 2005.

    Beast is on the Wolverine X-Men team and also on the Secret Avengers.

    Colossus became the new Juggernaut in the "Fear Itself" crossover and is fighting to contain the impulse to destruction within him. I forget what happened to Cain Marko...
     
  18. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I finished reading both Avengers Point One and Avengers Vs X-Men #0. First of all, I can't wait until Hickman takes over after act one, gotta agree about the "Bendisspeak". The point one issue was the better issue, the zero issue was simply set up. Vision has returned pissed off, frustrated, and sad which is to be expected. He might be the wild card in this arc. I echo Tony's sentiments as well with regard to Vision and Wanda, I liked them together as well. Not off to the blaring start I thought but then like I said, this was mere set up.
     
  19. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Going on sale tonight at select stores and in wide release tomorrow, Avengers Vs. X-Men #1:
    I've admitted that I'm not a Marvel reader. The last Avengers comic I picked up would have been Avengers/JLA #4. The last X-Men comic I picked up would have been Star Trek: The Next Generation/X-Men: Second Contact. However, I'm a little bit more versed on what's happening with the X-Men than I am with the Avengers; at work, I often have to write about the X-Men, and I've become rather good at faking it. :)

    Some thoughts on AVX #1. Non-spoilery ones first.

    This is the second Brian Michael Bendis comic I've ever read; the first was AVX #0 last week. The pace of it surprised me. This was like the Geoff Johns/Jim Lee Justice League; lots of big panels, lots of showy artwork, and not much in the way of plot movement. Oh, don't get me wrong, stuff happens, but it feels stretched out. This could have fit a 22-page comic easily.

    This first issue is weighted a little more towards the Avengers than the X-Men; we don't reach Utopia until near the staple in the middle, and even then we have more Avengers moments.
    I particularly liked a scene between Captain America and Wolverine. It's quiet, and Romita's artwork conveys the emotion well.

    Now, spoilers.

    The book is not devoid of problems.

    This doesn't line up very well with Jason Aaron's half of AVX #0. Aaron's Hope and Bendis' Hope might as well be two entirely different people. They behave differently, they know different things. No consistency, not a good sign.

    The issue is very X-Men light. There are more X-Men on the cover than there are in the book. It's painfully obvious on page two, which is wasted with a roll call of both teams. (There are a number of wasted pages in this.) This is basically an Avengers story that happens to take Captain America to the mutant refuge of Utopia at the end, and it's paced out for the scene you know is coming at the very end -- Cyclops getting pissed off and blasting Cap.

    And that brings up a related point. Cyclops seriously overreacts to the situation as presented for no discernible reason. The only thing I can figure is that the visor he's worn all these years has cut off the circulation to his head.

    Now, the expectations game.

    It's hard to judge where a 12-part story is going to go based on a single issue. But, based on the way stories like this are told, I'll take a stab.

    In stories like this, heroes meet, heroes have misunderstanding, heroes fight, heroes set aside their differences and discover they were both right and fight off the common enemy together.

    The Avengers think that the Phoenix Force is going to wipe out life on Earth. They're justified in thinking this, since the issue opens with the Phoenix Force wiping out a planet.

    The X-Men think that the Phoenix Force is going to usher in a new age of mutantdom. I'm not sure that they're justified in thinking this; if they are, Bendis doesn't lay any groundwork for that.

    Now, it's possible that the Avengers and the X-Men will join forces in issue #11 and they lay the smack down on the Phoenix Force in issue #12.

    However, I think it's also possible that Avengers Vs. X-Men will show that the Avengers and the X-Men are both right. The Phoenix Force will wipe out all life on Earth, and from the ashes of the charred Earth new life will be reborn. In short, I think this could be a Flashpoint-like reboot point for the Marvel Universe. Not a total reboot, just enough of a reboot to clean up some problems here and there.

    I think my overall feeling was of "Meh." It's not objectively bad. It just moves slowly, and it assumes that the audience knows the backstory. When I said last week that this issue makes a better start for AVX than last week's issue #0, I really meant that.
     
  20. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The X-Men are hopefull that Hope is the mutant messiah and Scott specifically is expecting that the Phoenix's arrival will bring some kind of positive change for the mutant race despite previous encounters with it would indicate otherwise. Death and destruction usually are left in it's wake.

    It isn't surprising Bendis writing with the X-Men characters is inconsistent because frankly, Bendis doesn't write those characters. It is intriguing to me the writing arc break down Marvel has chosen with who is writing what arc of this book. Starting with Bendis seems logical since I'm assuming we're going to be dealing with the Avengers characters early on which of course he is intimately familiar with. Jonathan Hickman takes over I believe the next arc, with Aaron writing the finale arc in the fall (the latter two are the far superior writers in my opinion right now, Bendis has lost his touch). I'm forgetting where Brubaker and Fraction will be slotted in the arcs.

    @Allyn yeah Bendis is known and loathed by a lot of fans for his "writing for trade" pace so it isn't surprising that you picked on that. It is what he is currently being maligned for on his "Avengers" run which has become stagnant and uninteresting IMO...yet I still continue to read. He will be concluding his long run with the Age of Ultron which is supposed to happen in-conjunction or after AVX. Not sure. I was thinking Age of Ultron or aka The Ultron War arc was going to happen prior to Avengers Vs X-Men. It also might be a summer arc.

    EDIT: I just read Rich's review on Bleeding Cool...sigh...I knew I wasn't going to like Bendis's arc on this book. Still getting this tomorrow though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012