AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Captain Craig, Apr 20, 2012.

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How do you grade The Avengers?

Poll closed Nov 26, 2012.
  1. A+

    46.4%
  2. A

    31.8%
  3. A-

    9.3%
  4. B+

    5.3%
  5. B

    3.4%
  6. B-

    1.6%
  7. C+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. C

    1.2%
  9. C-

    0.3%
  10. D+

    0.3%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    0.3%
  1. Mike Farley

    Mike Farley Commodore Commodore

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    We didn't see a body and we didn't really see a moment of death. I think the Son of Coul just might be seen again.
     
  2. Crusher Disciple

    Crusher Disciple Admiral Admiral

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    Madagascar comes out this Friday?

    Sonofabitch! :klingon::klingon:

    *marks through her planner(
     
  3. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I hope Agent Coulson is really dead. Bringing him back would feel so cheap since his death was so important in getting the Avengers together.
     
  4. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Oh, I agree. Coulson's death means something in the MCU and bringing him back would just be absurd, but there is leeway to do it with and if Marvel wants him back...
     
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. The last we saw was medics moving in to treat him.

    What does Whedon have to say about the character's future? Probably next to nothing. It's unlikely, as either a writer or the director trying to create the best possible dramatic moment, that he'd have cut away from Coulson to have his death announced off-camera - so either he chose to leave the door open or he was instructed to do so by the studio (no way to know which).

    The guy who announces his death also lies about the trading cards, of course.

    There will be one or more other Marvel movies before the next Avengers, and none of them will be directed by Whedon.

    What would bringing characters who had meaningful, dramatic deaths back to life mean for the Marvel "movie universe?"

    Golly, it would mean that it's just like the Marvel Comics universe. ;)
     
  6. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Has Uncle Ben been brought back in the comics yet?

    I know DC and Marvel brought back Robin and Bucky, which is so silly.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  7. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, look - you found one character who wasn't.

    There are probably two or three others. Trust me, you don't want to tally up two lists.

    I see Captain Marvel is up and about. ;)
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    They can rebuild Coulson. They have the technology. :p

    I still think that if they do want to keep Clark Gregg involved in the MCU, they could bring him back as Vision. Just base him on Coulson's brain patterns instead of lame-o Wonder Man's.
     
  9. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He got Wash'd, I think he's a goner. :devil:

    You could be right of course, but that's what I think right now.

    Besides, they have Maria Hill now, and she's... such a well-developed character I want to see her get more screentime. :shifty:
     
  10. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Coulson's exit was so blatantly ambiguous I was sure we'd see him again before the movie even ended, in a post-credits scene at the least...

    If he'd been given a clear death scene, I agree that bringing him back would be cheap. But in the given context, not to do so would practically be a Chekov's gun violation. :p
     
  11. OdoWanKenobi

    OdoWanKenobi Admiral Admiral

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    Um...what? There was not a single thing ambiguous about his death. He got stabbed through the chest. We saw him die mid-sentence.

    This sounds like so much wishful thinking from the fans. Coulson is dead, it's sad, but he went out like a champ. He gave Loki a "reason you suck" speech, then blasted him with a BFG. Then he told Fury he was totally ok with dying this way, because the team needed something to motivate them. His death served a purpose in the narrative.
     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Feb 24, 2005
    Yeah, he gave them a reason to be called Avengers! :p
     
  13. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    - We saw him pass out mid-sentence, not die.
    - The cards and the blood was a ruse by Nick Fury to motivate the Avengers.
    - The medics never announced his death; Nick Fury was the one who said that the medics said he was dead. The same Nick Fury who faked the cards.

    I'd say there's a pretty good chance he's still alive.
     
  14. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    There's a chance. "Pretty good" is an exaggeration.
     
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But it was apparently Marvel, not Whedon, that wanted to kill him in the first place.

     
  16. Gingerbread Girl

    Gingerbread Girl Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, Marvel wanted him dead? Doesn't mean they won't somehow bring him back. IIRC, in the comics, Hawkeye got killed and resurrected a couple of times (so did his wife, Mockingbird). I say Couslon lives! :p
     
  17. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Exactly so. The "wishful thinking" is on the side of insisting that the death is unambiguous.

    One can call bringing the character back a "cop-out" - that's an opinion. Suggesting that that the studio didn't build an escape right into the screen narrative is simply an error.

    If they'd been any more explicit about their misdirection, the scene wouldn't have worked at all
     
  18. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Coulsons death was heroic and awesome, but I love his character, if they do bring him back I'd love to see the Avengers reaction and subsequent beef with Fury. Which if the sequel is in anyway as well written as the first would be a good dramatic sequence for the story.
     
  19. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    In Smallville Lex pretty unambiguously had an entire Fortress come crashing down on top of him, we all know how that turned out.

    Personally I had been mulling over the idea that Coulson was an LMD. He still could have been, or could be brought back as one.
     
  20. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All this fooforaw about whether Coulson really died is puzzling. In screen context the only one who really cares is the one with the least motivation to be an Avenger, Stark. And like all the real emotion in this movie, it relies on having seen the other movies. You remember those scenes and it's obvious Coulson's death actually matters, to Stark anyhow.

    The others seriously giving a crap was in the script but it was all forced. Captain America and Thor are supposedly used to the death in combat, plus they are natural heroes. The cards are the kind of thing that most of us should actually find kind of off-putting, actually. Hawkeye wasn't there, Black Widow was presumably a coworker but in my memory had no special, i.e., normal, reaction. (But then, she got the full Whedon treatment for her character, meaning limited humanity.) Besides, Black Widow was already on the pay roll. Coulson's death really was rather fake drama, no more essential than the fights between the heroes before it. No guesses as to why Banner does anything, especially since we are explicitly told that pretty much everything we see him say or do is a lie.

    Parenthetically, since when did "Black Widow" mean she doesn't mate, then kill?

    As to whether Coulson really died, the death scene wasn't a bit believable as a true death scene. But this is true of most death scenes, which in Hollywood are remarkably painless, easy and sentimentalized. Whether Coulson returns rather depends upon negotiations with Gregg, which should go pretty smoothly (for Marvel) given his last scene. So I suppose he'll be back, to no more interesting point than he served leaving.

    The only thing Avengers did really well was put all those superheroes up on the screen at more or less the same time and juggle all those characters while keeping the action flowing smoothly (if not entirely rationally.) That's quite a lot, a commendable directing/SFX achievement, and well worth the money for a summer movie experience. But I don't really think it pays in this case to look beneath the hood of your fun ride.