Avengers 2 News, Rumors, Etc. Pictures until release...

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Flying Spaghetti Monster, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love Romeo+Juliet. About as good a modern adaptation as ever was.

    I personally wasn't over the moon for Whedon's "Much Ado" but I have much fondness for Brannaugh's, and I've performed in it twice myself, so I come to it with some baggage.
     
  2. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I'm sure its good for a Shakespeare adaptation. If you put a gun to my head and made me watch a Shakespeare based movie, I'd probably go with Whedon's, but outside of that situation I at least need subtitles on a movie if its using a language I don't speak. I've never gotten why no one seems to have tried to make a fairly loyal to the material Shakespeare movie but translated it into modern language, it would probably get people who don't speak Shakespeare to at least give it a chance :shrug:
     
  3. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    It's actually not at all weird to do a modern adaptation of Shakespeare like Whedon's Much Ado or Luhrman's Romeo + Juliet (which is one of my favorite Shakespeare movies), people have been doing it for decades. They did the same thing with the Patrick Steward/David Tennant Hamlet. Coriolanus, starring Ralph Fiennes (Voldemort from Harry Potter), Gerard Butler (Leonidas from 300), and Brian Cox, (Stryker from X2) , is another awesome modern Shakespeare movie.
     
  4. Klaus

    Klaus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ian McKellan's Richard III is my favorite updated Bard... and it was a step in RDJ's comeback road to Stark.
     
  5. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've heard of several of them, although the Patrick Stewart/David Tennant Hamlet is something I hadn't heard of before and sounds awesome. But, while there are a bunch of Shakespeare adaptations in a modern setting, the ones I know about still speak like its in Shakespeare times. I just think it would be interesting to see one of the plays translated into the type of English we speak in 2014, even if they keep the old setting.
     
  6. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  7. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, I hate to come across as a snob here, but Shakespeare is not that hard to understand.

    If you watch the movie (or play or whatever) even if you have trouble at first understanding it the general idea of it should be clear to you based on what's going on in the scene.
     
  8. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, to each their own. If I wanted to try to figure out a story with no dialog, I'd watch a silent film. At least then I wouldn't have to hear people attempt to speak in a language both close enough to and far enough away from modern English to be annoying.. Actually, I have seen a silent film and liked it, so that's got Shakespeare beat. Shakespeare did not write in modern English.

    Heck, he didn't even write in a language anything like modern english. There are some identifiable english words in it, but its practically nonsense. It makes sense that its written like this because its ancient. But to never translate his dialog after however many centuries just makes his work strictly for, well, Shakespeare snobs. Seriously, I tried to challenge myself to try to read a Shakespeare play a few months ago. I got exactly as far as the second page of MacBeth, and my brain melted out of my ears. Now, I consider myself a good reader, I read a lot and often, but I might as well have been trying to read a book written in French.

    Now, I'm not saying its bad. I'm saying its the work of a guy who died centuries ago, and its written in what is basically a foreign language compared to modern day english. Unless someone wants to translate it into modern English, I intend to stay far away from it. Like I said above, I really need foreign language films to have subtitles and foreign books to be translated, and no one seems to want to do that with Shakespeare's work. Its like if you could only read/hear/watch stories from Greek Mythology in the original ancient greek :shrug:
     
  9. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    It's not ancient, it's modern English. Read Caucer and then complain. Or Beowulf if you want to have something legitimate to complain about. But Shakespeare is legible modern English, clearly in a somewhat more archaic form, but 95% comprehensible.

    The syntax is sometimes a touch weird for me (given the need to make it have the right rhythm and rhyme), but the words themselves are usually clearly the same regardless of spelling.
     
  10. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No. It really isn't practically nonsense. It's an earlier form of English - in fact it gave a remarkable number of phrases to modern English - but is still English, and it's not that hard, especially when given context by being performed.

    You don't have to like it. I certainly think it's hugely overrated, but it's not that hard to follow.

    And if you're going to perform it, do it in period. You're fooling no-one trying to update it...
     
  11. jbny67

    jbny67 Captain Captain

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    No Fear Shakespeare
     
  12. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know if I like it or not, I literally can't read it. I've been reading for 18+ years, I have a good grasp on reading English, and Shakespeare is not written in an understandable way for to someone who only reads stories written in modern english. Performing it in that same ancient version of English doesn't make it any less confusing.

    I don't want to get into a big thing about it. All I know is that I find it completely incomprehensible, and that unless someone adapts some of the plays into modern English (actual modern english, that people speak in 2014) its not something I intend to bother with. I can't read it, I can't understand it in general, and I have no idea why anyone would put the time in to try to decipher it, but more power to you if you can figure it out. What little bit of Shakespeare I experience comes from references in movies and stories written normally, and thats as far as I can go. I'm just incapable of understanding it in its original Klingon form, and not even Joss Whedon can fix that ;)
     
  13. Masiral

    Masiral Captain Captain

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    First, 500 years is not really ancient. Second, the vast majority of words in Shakespearean English are the same as modern English. The sentence structure is different, but the words are the same.

    If you really want to read a "translation," find the No-Fear Shakespeare editions. They have the original Shakespearean text on one page and the modern English on the other, so you can read them both and compare. For a lot of lines, there is very little difference.
     
  14. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I tried that with Macbeth, that was the version I tried to read. It technically translated it, but it didn't come out quite right. I think to make it work it would need to be not exactly translated, but also interpreted in a way more like modern people speak. Just translating the weird words and phrases/metaphors isn't quit enough, although it did make it readable, if dry and without enough "personality" (that's the best way I can explain it) to keep my attention. That said, there is a lot of difference in the lines, its just that the translation needs more work to grab the reader.

    As for the same words but different sentence structure, that's a huge problem. I suppose I could say something like "The fish flew into apple pants therefore a monkey door will make", which includes all actual English words, but is gibberish. Shakespeare isn't always that bad, but even in the little bit I tried of MacBeth it got close. Basically, if someone could take the idea of No Fear Shakespeare, but actually work on it to make the translation work better, I'd try it out. Same goes for movies, if someone made an adaptation with people speaking like modern people, I might watch it. Those things will probably never happen, so I just don't bother with it. It might be good, it might be bad, but its not something written for people in the modern day. Its something for literary and performance aficionados, and that's fine. The stories might be interesting if they were understandable, but there is so much great fiction in the world, it doesn't really matter if some really old stuff stays indecipherable to people who aren't obsessed with it.
     
  15. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    I think it was Patrick Stewart who said that Shakespeare should be seen not read and I do think he's right. Plus Shakespeare and ideals are a part of alot of movies and television, you really don't need to read his wroks to understand his writing.
     
  16. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Here's an example from A Midsummer Night's Dream (link). You can compare the "translation" on the right, which seems to basically just suck the fun out of it while changing little else:

    I always found that relatively straight forward. The only thing my internet spellcheck doesn't think are words is 'scape, but it's pretty obviously escape. It's poetic, of course. "Escape the serpent's tongue" is a reference to the criticisms from the crowd (booing or hissing if we want to be literal). Read the translation on the right if you must but then go back and see if you can figure out the left. I promise it's quite readable and clearly modern English.
     
  17. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Unless Tony's going to spouting more psuedo Shakespeare in The Age Of Ultron I don't see what this has to with the movie.
     
  18. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Eh, it's a slow news day. We were talking about Joss Whedon.
     
  19. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'll admit, when I first started reading Shakespeare, I had trouble with it, but I had to read it for drama class at school so I had to stick with it, and once I got used to it I really liked it.
    If you have trouble, just stick with it, you'll get used to it eventually. And like the others said, it is a lot easier to understand it when it's being performed, than reading it.
    Here's a clip from the Joss Whedon Much Ado.
    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzuWf66R2HY[/yt]
     
  20. Klaus

    Klaus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It takes me a little bit to get into "Shakespeare mode" when I haven't heard it in a while, but once I've flipped the switch on it works fine for me. It's like listening to Bob Dylan. :D