Armstrong stripped of 7 TdF titles

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Deckerd, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    Well exactly. The damage this does goes way beyond Armstrong himself, and I don't mean the precious cycling fraternity.
     
  2. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Italy, EU
    Well, there's Napoleone di Buonaparte.
     
  3. Roger Wilco

    Roger Wilco Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Not all opinions are inherently equal though. I've followed cycling for a long time. That Armstrong cheated, and always cheated, is self-evident.

    People who still think Armstrong was clean, or maybe clean or even not-more-dirty than his opponents are about on the same level as people who still think Saddam Hussein threatened the USA with WMDs and had something to do with 9/11. Yeah, you're probably not going to change their minds, but that doesn't make them right.

    Link please?

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...rong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html?page=all

    It's all about "awareness" (as if anyone isn't aware of cancer yet), not research. Awareness of cancer or awareness of his Lanceness?
     
  4. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    I heard a woman from the foundation on the radio earlier today. She stated that a cancer diagnosis in the US can often mean financial disaster, even if you have insurance, which is an appalling situation.

    The foundation has apparently helped thousands of people - IF this is the case, I would think the good done by Armstrong far outweighs misdeeds such as cheating at a sport.

    Is there any proof - not just of the doping, but of the tangible benefits provided by the foundation ? I'm thinking he is may well be guilty as charged of the doping, but am undecided about the foundation...
     
  5. Shaytan

    Shaytan Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Location:
    Fluctuat nec mergitur.
    Wrong, we don't like winners.
     
  6. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    I'm sure there's proof enough for some, never enough for others - same as the doping.

    We went through the same exercise with some major league baseball players a while back.

    You're saying Lance's stock should rise a bit?

    So, anyway - does stripping this guy of his titles mean that they go to whoever was the runner-up or their team? What are the odds that the runners-up weren't doping? The history of the Tour de France is replete with this kind of thing, after all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    Spock could tell us in a heartbeat, but they must be---astronomical.
     
  8. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    This is why the whole kerfluffle does strike me as somewhat funny and trivial - we're talking about an apparently terribly corrupt sport. It's fair to assume that a lot of the guys Armstrong beat were just as juiced. Barry Bonds wasn't the only guy in the majors shopping at BALCO, after all.

    The sport does, nonetheless, exist only because of the amazing, herculean abilities of individual human beings. Let's face it, most of us could take every drug known to Tour de France cyclists and we wouldn't make it past the first few miles.

    Outrage or anger over this, rather than just disappointment, is like making an issue of the "amateur" status of Olympic athletes this late in the day. Captain Renault would doubtless be shocked by these goings-on.
     
  9. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    The USADA had George Hincapie -- the guy who was Armstrong's domestique through all seven Tour wins -- willing to testify against him. That means a lot. In any event, Armstrong's decision is probably more due to the real Feds now wanting to get a piece of him due to mounting evidence that he was essentially the ringleader of a distribution operation.

    The kind of numbers that Tour riders were putting up until just a few years ago are now believed to be physiologically impossible to do without doping. There's a legitimate reason cycling has, quite literally, slowed down since the '90s -- people are climbing Alpe d'Huez about 3-4 minutes slower than a decade ago, and that's an absolute eternity in cycling (and just over one climb) ... it's not an illogical theory that this is due to the sport slowly being cleaned up.

    USADA claims it has 38 tests from 2009 - 2010 that show evidence of blood doping, plus the 2001 EPO test. I don't see a problem, here -- Armstrong shouldn't get a free pass just because he got millions of people to wear his bracelets, and with him being such a stubborn guy, I don't think he'd make this decision without believing that they finally had him dead to rights.
     
  10. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Utter nonsense...he'll always be a 7-time winner of the Tour. The USADA is a farce and keeps breaking it's own rules. I think it might be time to ban the USADA.

    RAMA
     
  11. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Nope, not a shred of proof, Lance was the most tested athlete in history.
     
  12. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Honestly I think too much is made in all professional sports when it comes to using performance enhancing drugs/techniques. But against the rules is against the rules.

    Needless to say even if he was doping, I think Lance is a great man to look up to. Doping aside he still achieved a lot considering what he had to come back from.
     
  13. B.J.

    B.J. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2004
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    Well, they'll always have Jerry Lewis! :lol:
     
  14. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2001
    Location:
    Australia
    There is a statute of limitations, it's 8 years. So in theory only his 2004-5 should be in danger of been stripped.
     
  15. Claudia

    Claudia Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Location:
    Sector 001
    I really would like to see the evidence presented that leads to trying to nullify Armstrong's results of his "2nd" career, from Aug 1, 1998 onwards. Until that happens there's a huge questionmark hanging over these proceedings.
     
  16. Shaytan

    Shaytan Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Location:
    Fluctuat nec mergitur.
    Who ?
     
  17. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain

    And we are two thirds into 2012. If the tests returned positive results in 2001 why wasn't something done about it then? If the tests returned positive results in 2009-2010 why wasn't something done then?
     
  18. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2003
    Location:
    Germany
    FWIW Jan Ullrich, who was second in three of Armstrong's TdF "victories" and was stripped of all results post-2005 because of doping (they couldn't proove anything before that) obviously has already told reporters he doesn't want those TdF wins if it comes to that, because and I'm going from memory here because I can't find the quote at the moment: "Lance was stronger than me. That was true then, and it's true now".

    I guess you have to read that as Lance had the better doping techniques then, and he respects that. :guffaw:
     
  19. NCC1701

    NCC1701 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Location:
    New Zealand
    It does happen. Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Cruden

    Although Armstrong's decision to drop the challenge is very suspicious to begin with, sounds like a former sporting hero has been dethroned, what a shame on his part.
     
  20. Gil T.Azell

    Gil T.Azell Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Location:
    Gil T.Azell