Are they cadets or are they officers?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by rwoods81, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. rwoods81

    rwoods81 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Kirk's jump from cadet to captain has been discussed to death but I think it can be explained away the fact that he was being groomed for command (Kobyashi Meru) and that he had proven command ability (the Nero incident). It also fits with the prime universe statement that he was the youngest captain in the fleet.

    What about everyone else?

    Kirk, Uhura and McCoy were obviously still cadets at the time of Nero's attack. In the shuttle hanger at the academy, Spock referred to Uhura as "lieutenant" however on Enterprise Captain Pike addressed her as "cadet." McCoy (also a cadet) referred to him as one Captain Pike's "senior medical staff" and is wearing Lt. Commander's stripes. Let’s assume Kirk was not grounded for cheating. What would his assignment have been? Where does this leave Sulu and Checkov? Are they also cadets and it was just not shown? Does Cadet/Lt. Uhura outrank Ensign Checkov. Was everyone just given a temporary field promotion due to the fact that these ships were heavily staffed by cadets?

    The only one that seems to make any sense is Spock. If all cadets were wearing red uniforms then we can assume that Spock's grey uniform was indicative of him being a graduate and an officer. They grey uniform was presumably his ground uniform while the more familiar blue tunic shows his position as Pike's science officer.
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk and Uhura: They are cadet/officers like Saavik in Wrath of Khan.

    McCoy: He's a Doctor so he gets to be Lt Commander.

    Sulu and Chekov: Might have graduated with the previous class. Chekov is a progidy so he went through the academy even quicker than Kirk.

    Normally Kirk would probably be slotted in as a navigator or helmsman

    Chekov is command track and Uhura is Services/Engineering. So Chevok is in the chain of command and Uhura isn't. Her rank isn't a factor.
     
  3. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Cadet/Officer = Midshipman. Epic WIN.
     
  4. Yeoman Randi

    Yeoman Randi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What is the real life progression from Cadet on up to Captain?
     
  5. Jeri

    Jeri Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk was a lieutenant, as shown on the transporter control during their fall off the drill platform:

    [​IMG]
     
  6. 6079SmithW

    6079SmithW Vice Admiral Admiral

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    From my understanding, about 20-30 years of service. After 4 years of academy training, graduate as an Ensign. 1-2 years of service = Lt. JG. 2-3 years = Lt. After this the time period between promotions is quite long, even for the most competent officers. There was a very detailed answer given to me by another poster in the "Didn't like the movie? What would you have done?" thread.
     
  7. 6079SmithW

    6079SmithW Vice Admiral Admiral

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    McCoy: Already has civilian experience so after his Academy training his rank is proportional to his experience.

    Sulu and Chekov: Already are graduates from a previous class.

    Kirk and Uhura:Still cadets (have not graduated) but I explain their Lt. ranks as them taking an "advanced" track at the academy for command, where they are commissioned as Lt whereas all cadets who take the "normal" track are commissioned as ensigns. This is all fictional though amd things are much different in the real world.
     
  8. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Too bad people (Trekkies) who frequent this forum never make that connection.
     
  9. Jeri

    Jeri Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just curious where that information comes from.

    In addition to the on-screen indicator that Kirk is a lieutenant, in the bridge-argument scene with Pike and Spock, Kirk refers to himself in dialog as a cadet, as in: "This cadet is trying to save the bridge!"
     
  10. 6079SmithW

    6079SmithW Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Just my guessing. They could be graduates or they could be cadets quickly drafted into service for the crisis like the rest. I honestly don't know.
     
  11. Yeoman Randi

    Yeoman Randi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks for the real life info. As a layperson i was completely in the dark about the ranks. And I avoid the "Didn't like the movie?" thread as much as possible! :)
     
  12. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    I rationalized it as Kirk and Uhura as being something like grad students.

    They are "cadet" because they are currently attending the Academy, but they have already experience (and probably a field commission) under their belt. In case of emergency, they can be drafted quickly into actual positions, and while technically still "student" they outrank officers with a junior commission (something like a bachelor's degree) like Chekov and Sulu.

    McCoy is already an experienced medical doctor, so he get his commission as Lt. Commander. Since he's not in the command track, it's not really a problem.

    Spock is probably a commissioned officer with some teaching duties, hence the grey uniform (instructor) while in the Academy.

    Not perfect, but I like it,
     
  13. John Picard

    John Picard Vice Admiral Admiral

    Remove the word "probably" from your statement. He designed and teaches the Kobyashi Maru plus he was Pike's first officer. He is much older than Kirk and as such had been a Starfleet officer for quite some time.
     
  14. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Spock doesn't Teach the Kobayashi Maru, since Kirk did not know who he was at his hearing.

    Kirk: Who is that pointy-eared bastard?
    McCoy: I don't know, but I like him !!!

    He did programming for the Kobayashi Maru test for the simulator, and may indeed have been the creator of the test, since nobody established where or when it was created.

    Spock probably also has a fair amount of field experience, and is already First Officer of the Enterprise under Captain Pike while working as a technician at the academy.
     
  15. Jeri

    Jeri Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Admiral Barnett refers to Spock only as "...one of our most distinguished graduates."

    So if anybody is a post doc around there, it's probably Spock. He was admitted to the Vulcan Science Academy, so Starfleet Academy would have been a logical step. Maybe he had no interest in active duty until this emergency came around and introduced him to Kirk and his older, prime-universe self -- and his advice about their friendship.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    AFAIK, Spock and Kirk are about the same age.
     
  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    true, we have to remember Kirk is older than the average human cadet, having entered the academy at 22.
     
  18. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I put probably just to be extra-cautious.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Spock was referred to as "Commander Spock" during Kirk's board of inquiry. So he was clearly already a commsioned officer and had worked his way up the ranks.

    As for everyone else, yeah I would guess by the end of the movie they were all officers with ranks equal to what they held when TOS began. After all, if Kirk was made a Captain, there's no reason why Uhura can't be a Lt. or Chekov an Ensign.
     
  20. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    God, I just realized that they'll be stuck in the same chairs for even longer this time around.
     

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