Are there novels which bridge TOS and Trek 2009?

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Terran, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Terran

    Terran Ensign Red Shirt

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    Pretty much what it says on the tin, whilst I would have preferred a new series, or film set in the primary universe, I have accepted what we have been given. As such, I would very much like to know if there is a novel out there which links 2009 to the TOS series? Perhaps explaining what Ambassador Spock was doing before the film starts. I think I remember hearing about a comic which might bridge the gap?
     
  2. Jim Gamma

    Jim Gamma This space left blank intentionally. Premium Member

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    There's a comic series called Countdown. This is more a TNG/Abramsverse link, though; there's not a direct TOS/Abramsverse crossover (that I'm aware of).
     
  3. Terran

    Terran Ensign Red Shirt

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    I see, I much prefer novels, but I may have to check this comic out. How does this fit into the continued novel world? (I know the novels aren't strictly canon, I'm just not a fan of when other fictional work isn't taken into consideration).
     
  4. Jim Gamma

    Jim Gamma This space left blank intentionally. Premium Member

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    The novels haven't reached that point yet in the timeline. (They're still a few in-universe years away.) They're free of course to ignore the comic, but they won't ignore the film itself.
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The closest you're gonna get to that is the ongoing post-Nemesis novelverse.
    There's The Needs of the Many, which is set in the Star Trek Online game continuity (and including Countdown in its backstory) and is set in the early 25th century - although it's more about what the TNG characters have been up to than Spock. It's incompatible with the prime novelverse, but hints easter egg-style that it exists as an alternate reality to it.

    The prime novelverse has only mentioned the 2009 movie in passing references - like Uhura Prime also knowing an Orion at Starfleet Academy, or an Enterprise-E security officer having spent time on the icy Delta Vega. Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts of Empire seems to be beginning setting up Spock's role in the movie. The novelverse "present" is 2384, three years prior to the prime-universe events of the movie.
     
  6. Terran

    Terran Ensign Red Shirt

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    Great information there, thanks. Haven't gotten round to the Typhon Pact novels yet, but looking forward to it!
     
  7. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Needs of the Many doesn't really fit in with traditional canon and ST09 except that it does speak of Spock's leaving and how Data was resurrected (which is different from relaunch continuity).

    There are no books linking TOS or canon materials to ST09, the novel continuity hasn't gotten that far yet and since ST09 resets histroy at the time of Kirk being born, there won't be a link between the 2 time lines.

    As to the comics, IDW didn't just write Countdown, there is Nero, and a continuous series where TOS episodes are reimagined in the Abrams timeline (which doesn't make sense to me since the years are different) and now there is a new series- Countdown to Darkness which is a prequel to the new film. Considering how much Countdown made sense of ST09, I would recommend picking up the new Countdown to Darkness since the movie may need it to make sense of things.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think the upcoming issue #15 is addressing that. Here's a preview:

    http://trekmovie.com/2012/11/20/che...erse-in-7-page-preview-of-star-trek-comic-15/

    It seems they're going with the hypothesis that there's an infinite number of parallel timelines, so that any given combination of events is bound to happen in one of them.
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Wrong Enterprise at warp!!!:mad:
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    AFAIK, there is no way for anyone in the Prime timeline to know that the Abramsverse even exists at all. From the point of view of characters in Countdown (and presumably Trek novels, if they include a scene like this, will do a similar thing), Nero and Spock Prime simply vanished without a trace and were never seen again, end of story. So unless there was a Mirror, Mirror - style crossover, I don't see how the two universes could link up.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    ^STO Dulmur knows. But everyone thinks he's crazy:(
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Crap! I like those DTI guys. I hope the 'prime' versions don't turn out like that!
     
  13. Terran

    Terran Ensign Red Shirt

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    It would be good if these novels continued to after the point Romulus was destroyed. Would make a very interesting read.
     
  14. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Plus with the 2009 movie taking place around 2257 (for the main part, meaning Kirk apparently gets command years before his Prime version), the two universes have similar events at different years.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Actually 2258, for the most part.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Is there any indication at all, in any novel, as to what year Kirk Prime received his first command? There's nothing in the show about it, I'm fairly sure of that. It could be that prime-Kirk got his first ship at about the same time that nuKirk did!
     
  17. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, suffice it to say, when you compare that to the Prime Universe, the Enterprise was already in space by 2253 (as per Spock's line in The Menagerie about the events of The Cage occurring "13 years" before) with Captain Pike in command. So, really the only thing that connects the two universes together is possible Star Trek Enterprise, because that occurred prior to Nero's entry into the Abramsverse. But, even then it could be argued that Enterprise is more in line with the 2009 universe than the Prime universe.

    In the novels it is generally considered that Kirk achieved command of the Enterprise around late-2264/early-2265. I just recently read Strangers from The Sky, and the second part occurred before Where No Man Has Gone Before but just after Kirk received command of the Enterprise. Plus Enterprise: The First Adventure takes place, if I recall correctly, immediately following Kirk's assumption. (And, funnily enough, it has Chekov at the nav station over a year before he was seen at it on the show---this might've been an inspiration for the Abrams and company including Chekov in the 2009 movie the way they did, since there was nothing on screen in the original series or movies that said that Chekov boarded the ship after Operation: Annihilate.)

    But there's also the Voyager episode Q2 where Kirk's first 5-year mission is said to end in 2270.
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Logically, no. ENT is common to both universes, by definition, since Nero's incursion occurred decades after it took place.

    But the Enterprise was not his FIRST command, was it? I thought he had command of a smaller destroyer-type ship before that. Possibly while at a lower rank, like Commander.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not likely. We know from "Obsession" that eleven years before the episode, which would be 2257, Kirk was a lieutenant "on his first deep-space assignment." Unless something similarly extraordinary happened the following year to catapult him into his first command of some ship or other, it seems likely that it took him rather longer to get to that point.



    The inspiration for including Chekov in both Enterprise: The First Adventure and the 2009 movie was undoubtedly the same. I figure they both independently included McCoy, Chekov, and Uhura before the events of the second pilot (and put Sulu at the helm instead of astrophysics) because it was the familiar core seven characters that the audience would want to see. Most readers or viewers would care more about that familiarity than about the niceties of crew continuity.
     
  20. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Quite frankly, let canon be disgraced on this one, but Enterprise really had nothing to do with TOS. Even before the 2009 movie came out, when I was watching it on DVD I was finding it hard to believe that Starfleet ships of the 2150's could look so much like their counterparts of the 2360's, instead of the 2260's. So, in terms of design, and don't try to tell me that it's because TOS was based on 1960's assumptions, compared to TNG's 1980's/90's assumptions, I also felt like the producers of Enterprise were trying to shove TOS out the airlock, and say that between Enterprise and TNG, we don't know what happned.

    So design wise, the 2009 movie looks like it belongs in the same universe as Enterprise. Plus, storywise, it doesn't jar you with annoying continuity questions like 'If humans had already met the Ferengi, then why did they not recognize them from the history tapes in "The Last Outpost", even though they had no name attached to them?'

    Enterprise I found was done better in the books, and the books, especially the books that were written while the series was on air, tended to be more consistent with what had previously been mentioned.

    Even Michael Jan Friedman's Starfleet Year One was a better prequel story for the Prime universe than the entire run of Enterprise.


    I'm just looking on Memory Beta---and its saying that in 2259 Lieutenant Commander Kirk was the first officer of the USS Alexander, and was forced to become Acting Captain upon the death of the Alexander's captain in a battle with the Klingon's. (Corona; Crossroad). Also in 2259 he was a line officer in command of 100 men on the planet Shad. (Covenant of the Crown).

    2260 Kirk is promoted to Commander.

    2261 saw Kirk in command of the USS Aloia. (Inception)

    Also in 2261 Kirk was in command of the USS Oxford (The Better Man)

    2262 Kirk was on shore leave for 3 months.

    2363 Kirk was a Commander in command of the USS Lydia Sutherland, which was later destroyed. (Enterprise: The First Adventure) It was at this time in 2363 that Kirk was offered command of the Enterprise.

    Aside from ETFA and COTC, I haven't read any of the other novels. But I also remember that in one of Shatner's books (I know it was one of the Totality books), it was mentioned that it was unusual for Kirk to be given command of the Enterprise at his young age.