Are the Borg the perfect enemy?

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by RAMA, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Mott the barber

    Mott the barber Commodore Commodore

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    Totally agree. Nothing more creepy than seeing the drone materialize for the first time in engineering in "Q Who?" :borg:
     
  2. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    'Q-Who', 'The Best of Both Worlds' and 'First Contact' were the Borg at their best. The episodes because they were an unstoppable force without a face.
    I think it's impossible to continue to have them as a threat when the episode and future appearances require a conclusion and victory over them. Same with the Daleks and Cylons.
     
  3. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    refresh my memory-how many repeating super-threats did Kirk face? My recollection is none. He faced several ONE-SHOT super-enemies, and several recurring non-super-threat enemies, but not recurring super-threats that he kept defeating.
     
  4. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well he faced down what...5 or 6 god-like aliens if not more. A repeated type of enemy anyway. He didn't always win, as with Picard and the Borg.

    RAMA
     
  5. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It doesn't matter if they were one-shots or not, fact is he defeated super-enemies at all. If he can do that without complaint, there's nothing stopping Janeway from doing the same to the Borg (which didn't even happen anyways, it's mostly just Anti-VOY hyperbole).

    Then again, the fact that audiences were upset that there was even a single alien species out there that could fight the Borg (the 8472 aliens) is more or less proof that there wasn't anything acceptable the show could've done with the Borg that anyone would've liked.
     
  6. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    but it does matter-it changes the argument. The argument is about weakening an otherwise powerful enemy through over-use when they're defeated every time they are faced. You can't weaken an enemy through over-use if they're only used once.
     
  7. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Of course it weakens the enemy even if they're only used once, defeating them even once weakens them and shows they weren't so tough and the main characters shouldn't have been so scared of them in the first place.

    Q showed up repeatedly, no one ever says he lost his menace.
     
  8. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    but it doesn't matter if you weaken a one-shot adversary by the end of the episode, because you're not bringing them back as supposedly intimidating adversaries for another episode later.


    Q was never really "defeated" in his appearances, so that doesn't really apply. Also, he became more of a comedy character than a villain.
     
  9. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it does matter. Because by defeating/destroying them you still weaken them. It doesn't matter if they show up again.

    Q made repeated appearances, and no one ever claimed he was "decayed" as a villain.

    Hell, Voyager does the reasonable thing and shows that the Borg were not the ultimate species of this Galaxy (which we already knew) by showing other aliens more powerful than them.

    What reaction does the show get? That by showing that there was someone more powerful than the Borg (despite ALREADY KNOWING THAT) the Borg have been weakened.

    It's moronic, it truly is.

    The worst part is, if TNG had introduced the 8472 aliens NO ONE would complain that there were other aliens more powerful than the Borg.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, people make the argument all the time. Minus All Good Things... the concept of him being a serious villain was over with Deja Q. Like the Borg, Q was played out by the time Modern Trek came to a close.
     
  11. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree, defeating the Borg was never effortless.

    :borg:
     
  12. _C_

    _C_ Commander Red Shirt

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    The Borg are creepy to me because of the idea that they can take away your individuality and turn you into a cold blooded cyborg. The loss of ego. The loss of "I am" is a terrifying prospect. At least to me.

    Now if only ST crossed over with Animorphs, and we had Yeerk controlled Borg walking around...YIKES!
     
  13. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    maybe not, but Trek went from one Borg Cube nearly conquering the Federation to one SHUTTLECRAFT penetrating a Borg base and defeating them. How the mighty had fallen.
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's no worse than a bunch of Dominion Bug Fighters taking out a Galaxy-Class Starship on their own, to a Galaxy Class Starship being able to wipe the floor with Dominion Bug Fighters.

    Frankly, I thought One Cube being able to do all it did, was kind of silly.
     
  15. Gone4aDuck

    Gone4aDuck Cadet Newbie

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    [/QUOTE]refresh my memory-how many repeating super-threats did Kirk face? My recollection is none. He faced several ONE-SHOT super-enemies, and several recurring non-super-threat enemies, but not recurring super-threats that he kept defeating.[/QUOTE]

    He sure as hell couldn't defeat his tailor. Man those shirts ripped easily. Whoever made those uniforms should have been court marshalled!
     
  16. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    As conceived in Q Who they're something like the perfect enemy - "the ultimate user". Interested not in the people of the Federation but their technology. It paid off nicely in BOBW but after that - once assimilating people became their entire MO and raison d'etre - yeah, they were pretty much just Space Zombies.

    Overall the Queen was a terrible idea, even though it worked well enough in First Contact, the best of the TNG movies despite some annoyances like that and Picard's newly-found psychic connection to the Borg.
     
  17. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    I actually think ti worked quite well, and that the Queen is a logical extension of the Borg.

    After all, if the Borg Collective functions as a single mind, why wouldn't that mind have a single consciousness? It's quite plausible that this consciousness would occasionally control a single body, like a puppeteer with a marionette.
     
  18. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    It seemed to me to be the antithesis of the Borg as originally conceived. I mean, yes, the Borg are indeed a single consciousness, but the way I see it, it's that very fact that makes it meaningless to speak of them (it?) occasionally controlling a single body - it controls billions of single bodies, all the time. On that account, no one body being more or less important than any other one body is pretty much the whole bit, isn't it?

    I'm prepared to forgive First Contact as an individual piece for having it, because it's very, very tough to make a watchable action flick without an individual villain. But for me it marked the point where the Borg just weren't to be taken seriously anymore.
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Were you also turned off by the idea of there being aliens who could fight the Borg, like the 8472? Or was that believable?
     
  20. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    I tuned out of Voyager before that. I've heard of 8472 but never seen any eps featuring them.

    ETA in principle I've no issue with species who are a match for the Borg (the Q, or whatsisface from The Survivors, if nothing else). I'm making my way through the middle seasons of DS9 for the first time and it seems to me the Dominion would at least hold their own.