Anyone Find Generations "Saucer crash" to be poorly done?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Knight Templar, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    As Chief Medical Officer, Crusher was responsible for getting those injured crewman in the drive section's ward to safety. If any of those people were lost, there would be hell to pay and Crusher's head would roll. It seems reasonable to me, then, that at the time the orders to evacuate were given, and given the nature of the danger, Crusher deemed the main Sickbay wards on deck 12 relatively safe and under control and probably felt comfortable leaving it to another Doctor while she personally made sure everyone in the drive section sickbay was taken care of.

    Another reason that Beverly may have decided to help out down in the drive section medical ward is because they may have been shorthanded on medical staff that were needed elsewhere moving people from the stardrive section -- after all, it was a particularly busy day in the drive section on account of the entire school deciding to conduct a field trip to the drive section while the Enterprise is running with shields up, staring down the torpedo tube of a D5 Bird of Prey.

    I'm all for full immersion in the narrative, so I choose to believe in my own personal interpretation that the destruction of the Enterprise D is a story of bad decisions, incompetence, and laziness on the part of the crew. They're lucky that little girl only lost her stuffed animal and not her life -- among a group of kids that were seemingly abandoned in the corridor until Geordi found them, in the stardrive section during an apparent yellow alert / at least general quarters type of situation -- running with shields up into a hostile situation.

    All that, combined with the failure to at least try remodulating the shields, and a less than thorough examination of Geordi's visor when it was known to be tampered with, makes this operation look pretty bad.

    Take this and the incompetence and irresponsibility of the command crew of the Yamato, it's no wonder they stopped putting children (spoken with Ch'Pok's voice from DS9: Rules of Engagement) onboard Starships. Enterprise never even bothered to separate the ship when they flew out to Nelvana III deep into the Neutral Zone to look for a secret base.

    The crews of both ships should be brought up on charges, but the Yamato crew took the easy way out and got themselves dead.
     
  2. los2188

    los2188 Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm with you on remodulating the sheilds and all, and I don't mean to be a butthead, but when was it known that Geordi's visor was tampered with?
     
  3. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    Geordi knew because Soran had it most of the time Geordi was on the Klingon ship. If he didn't automatically assume it was tampered with, it's another failure since it's been tampered with before.
     
  4. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also, Geordi's VISOR had been tampered with before, and that tampering almost resulted in the assassination of a visiting leader. If from that point on, they didn't automatically check the VISOR anytime Geordi had been in a compromising situation, they were definitely incompetent.
     
  5. los2188

    los2188 Commander Red Shirt

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    You're correct in that they should have checked his visor because it had been tampered with in the past, but they still didn't know for a fact that it had been tampered with. I had always surmised that his visor was taken away so Geordi simply wouldn't be able to see not that Soran was going to tamper with it. I mean in the movie Soran tells the Klingons to "eliminate them." At that point, I don't see why Soran would have tampered with the visor just to then destroy the enterprise if that old bird of prey could. To me, he seemed generally interested in the visor as a doctor so he studied it to see how it works...etc but at the last moment, he decided to do whatever it is he did with it, then send Geordi back. But again you are very spot on. They really should have checked it. I do stand corrected. :bolian:
     
  6. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, I agree that they wouldn't necessarily assume someone had tampered with it. Geordi obviously thought that Soran had just taken the VISOR to deprive him of his sight as a part of torturing him. The only thing that sort of hints that they've done something to the VISOR was when Soran says to the Duras sisters, "I think it's time we gave Mr. LaForge his sight back." But, of course, that's just very vague foreshadowing to us in the audience and not something Geordi heard.

    My point was just that given what happened in "The Mind's Eye," I'd think they'd have protocols in place to be extra super careful about Geordi's VISOR. Like scanning it everytime he's been off the ship. Or at least scanning it each time it's been in someone else's hands. We could argue that perhaps Geordi just didn't think to mention to anyone that Soran had taken his VISOR for a while, but again you'd think that after what happened before, he'd be instructed to always report something like that.

    Bottom line, I can't think of any way to justify them NOT checking his VISOR other than that somebody got careless.
     
  7. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's been a while since I've watched it, so I may be shaky on some of the details. I always figured/rationalized that the people being moved around during the crash were not actually moving from the stardrive section (not all of them, anyway. And not the children) but were being moved to designated "disaster locations" where people could be accounted for, to reduce the risk of people being trapped somewhere, unable to call for help, or some other such contingency.
    I don't remembeer if t he canon of the film contradicts this possibility, but it worked for me.
    And, yes, I always cringe at the whole little girl losing the teddy bear thing. Just one of the worst moments in all of Trek.

    I'm also not too happy that the conn and ops consoles on the bridge go flying, instead of being attached to the floor.
     
  8. malchya

    malchya Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I remember this in the theater, the sheer mass they managed to convey as the saucer slowly dumps its inertia. I thought the effect was very well done.

    Upon rewatching on the small screen, it is obviously a model. Okay. So are the ships in "Sink the Bismarck." Doesn't keep the battle scenes from being awesome. I'm left with only one complaint: the friggin' windows. Gods! Really? Even if the transparent aluminum is normally bolstered by SIFs that failed, aluminum just don't fail by shattering like sugar crystal. That was the one thing that slammed me back to my seat in the theater rather than keeping me there on Veridian III. They managed to over ride my willing suspension of disbelief.

    Oh, well.....
     
  9. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought it still held up very well the last time I watched it on Blu ray. Unlike the ILM shot reused countless time throughout the TV seriess. The one that had been blown up and dropped in before the Stellar Cartography scene.

    Although my opinion of that might now be coloured by the lavish detail, HD remastering of TNG has managed to pull from that footage.
     
  10. bluepicard27

    bluepicard27 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    it looked like a frisbee over a mini golf course
     
  11. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

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  12. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Agreed, though even with that dramatic shot, I can't help but be reminded of my biggest issue with Generations... What the heck is up with the lighting?
     
  13. The Squire of Gothos

    The Squire of Gothos Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's the new alert level, one step below yellow alert, "something's afoot".

    Aside from a half second where I'm reminded it's one big model being dragged along, the whole thing looks so well. You really get a sense of a lot of mass plummeting towards the planet surface about to receive one heck of a thump. The only other scene I can think of like it in Trek was the shot in DS9 of Sisko's captured Jem Hadar ship spinning toward's a planet below.

    The window above the bridge cracking was a bit odd though, like the view screen in the 09 movie turning out to be an actual window with a HUD-style overlay.
     
  14. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Okay, I must admit... I did actually laugh out loud at that. :)

    But I agree with you on the scene overall. I still think it looks great.
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Loved the saucer crash.

    As for the breaking windows, who says they weren't actually glass, made diamond-hard by those magic invisible fields that hold Trek ships together, which failed during the crash?
     
  16. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    I had no problem with the nuTrek viewscreen being an actual window... it actually makes a ton of sense.
     
  17. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the one hand, I can see the logic of not having any actual windows on the bridge. It would provide an area of vulnerability during an attack and, I suppose, if just an ordinary glass window would also let people from the outside, y'know, see in.

    OTOH, I can see not having any windows as a potential problem as well. If the sensors go offline, the people on the bridge can't see anything outside. Remember in "Brothers" when Riker said the only way they knew they'd dropped out of warp was by looking out a window? You couldn't do that on the bridge. Well, okay, on the Enterprise-D you have the big dome in the ceiling, but not on any other Enterprise.
     
  18. bullitt3980

    bullitt3980 Cadet Newbie

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    I liked the saucer crash-seeing the saucer in daylight was a shock--I didn't realise what colours the ship really was. My only nit was when everyone slid forward in the bridge why didn't they crash through the vew screen? My other thought is that since most of a Trek movie(pre JJ) budget is used up paying actors SPX shots are the first to be trimmed or left out--they did the best job they could using models
     
  19. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    How so?
     
  20. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    As Cove said, windows make sense for the simple fact of seeing what's going on outside. If you entirely relied on the viewscreen, you are blind or reliant on sensors when it is inoperative. Plus, an overlay of data is quite simple to accomplish on an actual window, allowing you to multitask. Why else would the Star Trek "viewscreens" be literal 10 foot tall projections of whatever it is you're looking at? You could simply get away with a little 17" panel at the captain's chair (which incidentally, a lot of times is the view we get from other captains when they are fullscreen on the viewscreen).

    As ST:FC shows, when the screen is off you're looking at a stupid blank wall. As ST:NEM shows, when the front of the bridge has been blown out by damage, you've got a pretty damn good view of whatever the starship is pointed at.
     

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