Anybody remember "Gargoyles"?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by _C_, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. _C_

    _C_ Commander Red Shirt

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    Except for the one episode where Proteus showed up again. I wish ALL of the eps were animated that way. It was done with movie quality animation work in my opinion.
     
  2. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    The Disney Afternoon... and where I lived, you got Batman TAS right after. And Gargoyles was so full of win... How many times as a young Trekkie, did I crack up when Demona and Xanatos sparred?
    Both series made me read Shakespeare and enjoy it.
     
  3. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Fun as Darkwing was, I'd have to put it fourth after DuckTales, Talespin and Rescue Rangers myself. Not in that order though, probably the reverse.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Darkwing was weird for me, because it was superficially in the DuckTales universe but didn't really fit with it stylistically. DuckTales was a very Disneyesque cartoon universe; aside from the anthropomorphic animals and fantasy phenomena, it tended to be relatively naturalistic. If Scrooge McDuck fell out of a plane without a parachute, you knew he'd die if he hit the ground and would need to be saved before then. But if Darkwing fell out of a plane and hit the ground, he'd just turn into an accordion for a bit and then be fine once they cut to a new scene. Because Darkwing Duck was set in more of a Warner Bros./Looney Tunes universe than a Disney universe. Darkwing was really a thinly veiled copy of Daffy Duck in Stupor Duck/Scarlet Pumpernickel/Duck Dodgers mode, albeit Disneyfied and domesticated by giving him an adoptive daughter -- and a little more competent than Daffy in that he actually succeeded in stopping the bad guys most of the time.
     
  5. Kytee

    Kytee Commander Red Shirt

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    I loved Gargoyles growing up, I should go back at re-watch it sometime. Though it's sad to hear not all of it has been released on DVD yet.

    Oh and I loved DuckTales and Tailspin. I still use the line 'Any landing you walk away from is a good one' which I picked up from launchpad McQuack

    -Kytee
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm not sure he ever quoted that saying straight, though. They usually had him do a comic twist on it like "Any landing you can spin away from" or "stagger away from."

    (The earliest attribution I can find for the saying is US Army Air Forces photographer Gerald R. Massie in 1944, but nobody knows if he was the first to say it.)
     
  7. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    guess I was the only one who liked Bonkers
     
  8. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was only weird to you because you didn't see it for what it was, a Batman/Shadow spoof. (Hence the "terror that flaps" pronouncements.) The only thing that ties it to DuckTales is the presence of Launchpad McQuack. Otherwise, the twain never met and didn't need to.

    And Sephiroth, I didn't hate Bonkers, but I figured setting a cartoon in the "Roger Rabbit" universe without actual live-action sequences seemed kind of pointless.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That show didn't really work for me. It was a knockoff of the Roger Rabbit conceit, Toons living in a human world -- but it didn't work because the humans were portrayed every bit as cartoonishly as the Toons. They were rendered in a cartoony style, they were subject to cartoon physics, they reacted to injury the same way cartoons did. The only thing that distinguished the "humans" and "Toons" was that the Toons were all animals or anthropomorphic objects. So it didn't live up to the premise.


    Huh? You're entirely off the mark. Obviously that's what it was, but that's not the only thing it was. And the fact that it was that has no bearing on my point that it drew more on Warner Bros. cartoon conventions whereas DuckTales was rooted more firmly in Disney and Carl Barks conventions (as one would naturally expect).

    I mean, heck, we know that Disney TV shows at the time were prone to following Warner Bros.' lead, as evidenced by the show this thread was originally about. Gargoyles was originally going to be another goofy Disney Afternoon comedy, but when Batman: The Animated Series became a smash hit, Disney decided they wanted their own noir action-drama and revamped the Gargoyles idea into what it became.


    No, GizmoDuck/Fenton Crackshell from DuckTales appeared in five Darkwing episodes, and episode 50 featured cameos by Glomgold, Magica, and the Beagle Boys. Also, the recurring evil spy agency F.O.W.L. originally appeared in the DuckTales episode "Double-O Duck," which was itself the inspiration for Darkwing. The current Darkwing comic from BOOM! has tied the two shows together more closely as well.
     
  10. Sephiroth

    Sephiroth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    like I said, it was a great homage to old school toons, and when you realize that Bonkers antics drove Lucky to an early grave, and that's why he's more subdued with Miranda you gotta admire the writers for the subtlety, and as for the setting, it's a cartoon, you gotta suspend disbelief a little to enjoy it anyway
     
  11. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I liked Bonkers pretty well, but I didn't catch it when it first aired; I remember it in late-night reruns before The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest reruns (which I was seeking out).
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's not about belief, it's about whether the premise is well-utilized. If the premise is that humans coexist with Toons, a lot of the potential value of that premise is lost if both groups are equally cartoony. What made Roger Rabbit work was the contrast between human and Toon, the comic incongruity of the two coexisting in a shared reality. That contrast was effectively nonexistent in Bonkers, so it was a total failure if its goal was to capture the flavor of the Roger Rabbit world. It's like doing a version of The Odd Couple where Felix is as big a slob as Oscar. Without the contrast, what's the point?
     
  13. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the context of its target audience, hell yes that's all it was, because that's all it needed to be.

    But it drew on those conventions to make fun of them! They didn't actually want a serious "dark knight" superhero!

    One show aping the Batman formula is not evidence of Disney being "prone" to following WB's lead. It's just the opposite. Disney's goofy cartoons were hits before WB revitalized its animation house, and its first products were Tiny Toons and Animaniacs - goofy talking animal cartoons!


    Fine, it's a shared universe, but still two shows with two different premises. DuckTales was supposed to be Indiana Jones with characters mostly related to Donald Duck. Darkwing Duck, once again, is a dark avenging hero spoof, so it doesn't matter if their storytelling styles - which includes how they're animated - are significantly different.

    Which means all you're earlier point means is that you are overthinking things in terms of these old Disney Duck cartoons.
     
  14. Kestra

    Kestra Admiral Premium Member

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    I liked Bonkers but I don't really remember it at all now. Also I'm sure this was too fluffy for all of you, but I loved Gummi Bears.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Gummi Bears was awesome! :D

    I was a huge fan of Gargoyles back in the day, too. And Darkwing Duck. But I'm always hesitant to try and go back and watch all of those old cartoons now because I'm afraid they won't hold up for me and I'd rather not ruin my memories of them. :ouch:
     
  16. Kai "the spy"

    Kai "the spy" Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I remember Darkwing Duck did a nice spoof of Twin Peaks, among other things.

    I watched most of those old Disney cartoon shows back in the day, Ducktales, Darkwing Duck, Rescue Rangers, Bonkers (which I liked back then, but I didn't know Roger Rabbit back then. Would have to re-watch it to know if I'd still like it). Anyone remember TaleSpin? Man, I loved those.

    But Gargoyles, of course, was a whole different level. I was totally nuts for that show. As a fan, I still love it dearly, and I'd wish Disney would put out the final half of season 2 on DVD already (yeah, I know, sales and all), and I'd wish they'd allow Weisman to continue his Gargoyles comic.

    And as a writer, this show was a heavy influence for me. I was too young for Twin Peaks and Babylon 5 and stuff like that, so it was this show that introduced me to the level of complexity a fiction series could accomplish, how something could be set up in one episode to be paid off several episodes later. Back when I was a kid making up stories with the help of his action figures and drawing his own series of Batman comics, Gargoyles taught me serialized writing. I owe so much to that show.
     
  17. ThunderAeroI

    ThunderAeroI Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What I recall is the episodes of ducktales where you got two episodes in a half-hour rather than the standard one. That really messed up my walking to the bus stop for school routine.
     
  18. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I remeber watching, and loving Rescue Rangers, Darkwing Duck, and Duck Tales Tailspin. Did any of you guys like the Aladdin series? I remember I used to love that one, and Timon & Pumba, and The Little Mermaid. I'm honestly shocked they've never released any of those on DVD, I know I would watch them again for the nostalgia.
     
  19. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Resurrecting this thread to point out that the show is available to watch-- legally-- on YouTube. Posted by Disney themselves.

    Season One.
    Season Two.
    Season Three.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^But with two episodes each missing from seasons 2 & 3. Not that season 3 matters anyway, aside from "The Journey."