Anti-Spock racism/general disrespect for the XO

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Dale Sams, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But Spock didn't know that at the time. ;)
     
  2. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    This is another one of those "dated" qualities about the show. You can't avoid it, because it was produced in the 1960's.
     
  3. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm more annoyed with the occasional disregard of rank...then I am with subsurface racism. They are after all...'human'.
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Most fictional militaries do the same. Especially comedies. The higher the rank the higher the ridicule.
     
  5. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Remember this was the era of McHale's Navy and Gomer Pyle and F Troop and all sorts of service comedies. Like Nerys said, it was a TV show, not a documentary on military protocol . . . .

    Heck, even today, detectives on cops shows routinely go behind their commander's backs. "Damnit, Beckett, you're off the case!" Etc.

    Is it realistic? Who knows? But it makes good TV.
     
  6. Captain Tracy

    Captain Tracy Commander Red Shirt

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    Correct, and an accurate reflect of the social and political climate underneath the philosophical ideal the show creator tried to promote.

    However, if done TODAY as a TV show, there would more than likely be black captain in command, a female of ambiguous sexual orientation as his 2nd, our former 'enemies' would now be our 'friends', and the ship would contain only 17% White Anglo-types in either positions of limited respect and responsibility, or serve primarily as the series Villains,.... oh wait,. they already made that show too. LOL!!!!
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    also, let's not forget that Trek has NEVER been reaistic on the military aspects. Officers doing enlisted men work, "flagships" without flag officers, officers who stay as captain or XO of a ship for a decade or more.

    Trek's military is nothing like a modern military.
     
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, he did. Which makes him an utter hypocrite because he knew full well how savage the Vulcans used to be.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why?
     
  10. Bad Atom

    Bad Atom Commodore Commodore

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    A lot of people forget that "Gene's vision of a perfect humanity where everyone gets along" is a legend that started after the show went off the air. The characters in the original series were not like that, so their behavior can seem shocking. They were good people, but flawed, arrogant, and yes, even a bit racist. But that's what makes them so interesting, even today.
     
  11. Captain Tracy

    Captain Tracy Commander Red Shirt

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    This is an incredibly salient and important point to remember.

    These were NOT 23rd Century men in space, they were mid-1960 White Anglo culture in space, and they were real, and an accurate reflection of themselves and their culture of that time,.. The men openly chased the women, and punched each other out, got drunk, and talked about honor,.. and they DID NOT walk around the bridge on egg shells because Uhura was "other than caucasian", and Sulu's hobby was flowers.

    So, trying to make STAR TREK out as some sort of utopian vision of the future, is total nonsense (as the above poster pointed out),... is was what it was: Mid-1960's American culture in Space,.. talking peace, while all the while zapping all that opposed the UFP agenda, one way or another. by hook or by crook,.. just like the war at the time.
     
  12. smalltalk66

    smalltalk66 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    What bothered me the most was Kirk defending Spock in "Balance of Terror" from Stile's racism...and then, many episodes later, he and McCoy refer to Spock as a "devil" in "The Apple." WTF??? Yeah, I know McCoy and Kirk were just kidding, but they said that to Spock's face.

    Not very cool or professional to do that to someone that you considerto be your best friend--especially if he's an officer who just got hit by a lightning bolt. If I were Spock, I'd have Vulcanized both their asses on the spot. lol
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair Spock brought it up. And they didn't call him the devil they just mentioned he looked more like Satan than Kirk did. Now, Capt. Tracy, he did call Spock the devil.
     
  14. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think it's even particularly unrealistic if McCoy and Scotty really feel that way on some level. Vulcan-Human relations wern't particularly smooth up to that point.

    And the very definition of being prejudiced is anticipating a group of people to act one way and making ill-adviced actions over pre-judging.

    So when Spock would make some 'cold-blooded' decisions*, it's completly realistic that some people would flip out without thinking things through.

    *And usually Spock was making a SMART call, and not some crazy Command Decision as seen in the simulation where Troi was trying to pass the "Command test". There were probably some horror stories going around about Vulcans weighing lives as figures in an accountants book.

    And as for Spock, not only is he putting up with all this...he's in an alien culture. It's not surprising that he often picked very awkward moments to say something like, "You humans must be so proud about killing millions in your World Wars".
     
  15. Captain Tracy

    Captain Tracy Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly,.. "folks is folks" They do what they do while saying one thing and thinking another. Put them in space all you want, they are going to take their culture and attitudes with them.
     
  16. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But like I said, replace all their "Green blooded bastard" stuff with normal racist terms like calling Sulu "Yellow-skinned bastard" or Uhura "Negress", and these guys become a lot less sympathetic.

    I mean, why should that sort of thing be tolerated just because Spock was an alien? What if they did do it to the non-white humans all the time?
     
  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then the TV show wouldn't have aired.

    Did they ever actually use "bastard" in TOS? Google says no. "Green blooded Hobgoblin" is the only TOS quote I can find.

    While "Negress" and "Negro" are outdated are they really racist?
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    The most offensive term I've encountered lately is the tendency of some politicians to refer to members of their party as "Real American Patriots".
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    From the in-universe perspective, that of Spock's, the opposite is true, though. McCoy would be the inferior breed, the representative of the more-animal-than-man servant race that enjoys the privilege of working for the superior greenblood nobility. It's a cannon-fodder crew of "blacks" there, with one worthy "white" slumming with them for noble reasons of his own, and being quite tolerant of the racial slurs of 'em stupid niggers because naturally they just won't know any better.

    The organization won't crumble out of disrespect for whites, because it's a black organization through and through; it's Spock's own decision to go slum there, and if he takes umbrage, it's again a personal rather than hierarchical matter.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Captain Tracy

    Captain Tracy Commander Red Shirt

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    It strikes you that way because it is universal code for 'Fascist Regime', as in: The REAL ___(a)___ ____(b)___.

    For space 'A' simply input any one of the flowing Geo/Policio terms, and for space 'B' simply input any one of the flowing organization structural descriptors.

    LIST A: America, German, Russian, Italian, British, Ugandan, Roman, etc.

    LIST B: Patriots, Party, Mafia, Union, Empire, Republic, Collective

    Mix and Match, have fun, discover Historical Dictators and their Nationalist fervor-driven regimes!!!

    Research the political agendas they instilled by controlling the masses (usually instituted during times of economic despair,... often sold as the "road to recovery" by some big personality who appears suddenly out of the mist to challenge, or out right over-throw, the currently installed government - while promising to deliver the people with his 'new deal', "new world order', 'new plan', 'new way', 'new dawn',... take your pick)

    So yes,.. anytime you see the words The REAL before an organizations moniker, watch out.
     

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