Ant-Man: Info, Pics, Rumors, Casting and Details till release

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Captain Craig, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I really have no strong feelings one way or the other about the Transformer movies, but I'll point out that the Transformers franchise already existed, Bay didn't make it.

    However, it's really the only example I can think of as far as franchises that were "ruined" (in someone's opinion) by someone other than the creator of the franchise (so you can't pick George Lucas). I suppose there are people who will argue Star Trek. I don't know. Anyone out there still hate the Mission Impossible films?
     
  2. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True, he didn't make it. He did turn a toy and cartoon show--was there even one on at the time of the first movie?--into a billion dollar franchise. Reinvigorating it, putting it back into the public's mind.

    Maybe I don't understand what "shitting on a franchise" means.

    But, what is ruined? What does it mean? Just because we don't like it? But a LOT of people seem to like it.

    If I had to say an example, maybe Seth Rogen's Green Hornet. That was an awful version of the Hornet. Certainly didn't help launch the film franchise they wanted. And then relatedly, The Lone Ranger? They both characters that have been around for awhile that failed to launch, and were both movies that failed creatively and at the box office. But did those directors "shit" on their franchises? Like, did they not care about the movies there were making?

    Like I don't think either director set out to make a bad movie.
     
  3. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I literally have no strong feelings about the Transformers franchise, so I shouldn't speak for Mr. Fandango, but I would imagine that, if you think studio profit is the way to measure it, then, yes, you don't understand what he meant by "shitting on a franchise." I think a subjective view of quality is a more likely explanation.

    I agree that none of them set out to make a bad movie. I would hope that's a given.
     
  4. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    I think transformers and Bay are a bad example for you guys to use. They are ridiculously bad movies. Outside of 14 year olds I haven't heard too much glowing praise. I think it's just a train wreck, and we continually get duped by decent trailers, and hope against all odds that it will finally be good, that Michael Bay will stop trying to be funny, and will write intelligent dialogue.

    The main thing is people confuse box office numbers with quality far too often. Nobody is going to see an oscar worthy film when they go to Transformers. They are hoping for nostalgia, and bad ass robots fighting. I could make a transformers movie and make it a $billion franchise. You'd have to be a complete retard to not make money with that IP.

    So yes, you can certainly make a $billion and shit on a franchise. Abrams shit on Trek and made a ton of money. Lucas continually shit on his own original trilogy and made gobs of money. It's not the same as people like m night shamalamalam and Avatar, but it's still not giving a fuck about the source material.
     
  5. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    To the extent that you think people are constantly going into Transformers movies expecting something different, I disagree. I think people are getting exactly what they are expecting and anticipating out of Michael Bay's Transformers films.
     
  6. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quite possibly. I guess with more examples, then we'll have a clearer ideas of what he means "shitting on a franchise."
     
  7. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    Myself, and everyone I know went in hoping for something different.

    You're underestimating the draw of an incredibly marketable nostalgic IP, and box office numbers, with people accepting the quality(or lack thereof) of the film. I was obsessed with this show when I was a kid, it doesn't take a lot to make me want to see these live action adaptations. Star Wars prequels are complete garbage, I still went to the theaters to see them, and many other hardcore fans went out to multiple viewings per episode despite the fact they now harp on them big time.

    There will certainly be the apologists for the film. But I know from my circle of influence, nobody likes those films. And I can tell you with complete certainty that the theater I was in, collectively was saying what the fuck with me at all the ridiculous dialogue. I despise this movie. We all paid to get in to that movie. We contributed to those box office numbers a 4th time even though we should have known better.

    This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that I am definitely not in the minority when it comes to these movies. And the hope for a quality film made out of a beloved tv franchise trumps the reality that Michael Bay has the intelligence of a 14 year old, and a horrible sense of humour. Like I said, you would have to be a complete retard to not make money with Transformers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    If everybody is quadruple dipping on them, it's hard to take it seriously that they really all hate the films.
     
  9. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    You went into Transformers 3 hoping for something different from 2 or 1?
     
  10. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    Yes, is there a problem with that?
     
  11. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I think that it is extremely strange, not gonna lie. Fool me once, fool me twice, but you thought the third movie would somehow be different? Did you see the fourth as well? It's fine to want to see them anyway knowing what they'll be, but expecting Michael Bay to completely change his style of movie seems odd to me when you've already seen that he has no plans to on multiple occasions.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    If I really hate a film, I'm not going to buy another ticket to see it, period. And, I'd never buy a ticket to see the third film in a series on the hope that it won't be crafted to satisfy people who liked both preceding films, especially if they were both financially successful. :lol:
     
  13. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    That's your prerogative. I don't like to have a chip on my shoulder every time a new movie comes out, I personally think that would be a downer. I'll always hope that movies from a franchise I love are going to be good though.

    @ the other guy. That's fine that you don't see it multiple times. It doesn't change the fact that many hardcore fans went for multiple viewings, who in hindsight, hated the Prequels, and were merely on the hype bandwagon when it came out, or were young, and when they became adults, developed a whole new set of opinions. Things like this can happen for any franchise. People's opinions can change over time either through re-evaluation, or growing up. I very much doubt you are so naive to believe everything is so black and white. I'm sure you've changed your opinions on things through the passage of time. I'm sure you've grown to have different priorities in life. Or do you claim that you are the same person you were when you were born, and will not change or grow whatsoever till the day you die?

    And like I said, you guys are severely underestimating the draw of nostalgia and a rabid fan base. Anyhow, you guys are nit picking a single statement that doesn't really have anything to do with the core argument.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2014
  14. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Personally I saw the third one (after thinking the first had a few moments, but the second was awful) only because if you remember Bay did actually come out and say that the second one wasn't perfect and acknowledged a few of the problems with it, and said the third one would be a big improvement...
    So I saw it. And it wasn't. At all.

    So I did skip the fourth one at least.
     
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    When people tire of seeing these sorts of things, they'll stop going. At that point, the filmmakers will stop making them.

    Why should the filmmakers be expected to stop, while they're getting truckloads of money for making them? Where's that money coming from, anyway?
     
  16. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    They shouldn't stop. The film makers have their vision of how to make a movie, they aren't trying to make bad films. They just are bad films because what they're doing is outside their wheelhouse. But the studio's can be inclined ot make a good film by ensuring they get the right producers/directors/writers. Case in point, the recent marvel movies are leaps and bounds better than the ones coming out 10 years ago. After the debacle of X3, the F4 movies, Elektra, Daredevil, and Origins, it seems FOX has also decided to be more diligent in making good films.

    They've taken the philosophy that it's not ok to just cash in on the IP, and been proactive in getting good people to make them. Unfortunately, not everyone cares enough to do that yet. But people are expecting more out of these franchises so it's changing.
     
  17. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I'm willing to wait adn see how the movie turns out before I judge it.
     
  18. Captain Craig

    Captain Craig Vice Admiral Admiral

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  19. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Love the costume.
     
  20. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    It would be funny if Rick Moranis had a cameo in the movie as a colleague of Pym's.

    Can't wait for a teaser. Can you guys hazard a guess as to when they might drop one?