Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Shaw, Feb 11, 2008.
I quite agree with that thinking myself, Cary.
I really like Cary's idea for VIP quarters... I could see something that looks like the master cabin of a yacht on one or more of those decks.
I figure you'd want all the crew quarters and VIP quarters to be in the saucer... At least enough quarter space for 430 people.
Keep in mind, in an emergency it can separate from the main hull and kind of doubles as a giant lifeboat.
FWIW, the 'Officers Manual' had the neck separating with the saucer, though.
In an emergency most people wouldn't be lounging around in their cabins...
Yellow Alert: Previous shift reports to their stations.
Red Alert: All shifts report to their stations.
Double Red Alert: Evacuate that compartment.
What I find incredibly bizarre is the discussions over in the Trek Tech Forum where people spend all their time envisioning how these ships would fall apart if they were in battle (as if battles were their primary purpose).
How often in TOS was the Enterprise seriously damage by an attacking enemy vessel? How many crew members in TOS died when the Enterprise was attacked by an enemy vessel? How damaged was the most damaged starship we saw in TOS? And did any of these starships have dorsal problems?
Battles were rare, battle damage even more so, battle fatalities were rare... and there weren't even seat belts!
You can over prepare for the worst. I'm sure that you have a 5-point seat belt in your car, which is equipped with a roll cage, and that you wear fire resistant clothing and a helmet every time you drive... the rest of us wear our seat belts and do our best to avoid accidents, and go on with life.
Honestly... you would be in more danger walking on a peaceful picturesque planet while wearing a red shirt than you would be on the Enterprise in battle.
Adding to this thread, I thought I would mention that I've uploaded the first set of "Interactive" Enterprise Deck plans to my site.
Unlike the other 2,000 or so blueprints that I have online, this set of deck plans, which is based on the works of Franz Joseph's original Enterprise blueprints as well as the Star Fleet Technical Manual, allows your to work your way through all 24 decks of the Enterprise, with details on ever major section.
To access the deckplans, click this link: http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/deck-plans/index.php
I hope you enjoy them-
Absolutely. You need SOME allowance for crew quartering in the secondary hull.
I break the Enterprise up into, not a "crew hull" and an "equipment hull" but rather a "mission-functions hull" and a "enabling-the-mission-functions hull."
So the overwhelming majority of science labs and command-and-control systems would be in the primary hull, while the majority of the propulsive-control systems and "dirty" life-support systems as well as the cargo facilities would be in the secondary hull.
If the Enterprise was a house, the primary hull would be the main floor and the secondary hull would be the basement.
But... given that... it only makes sense for crew quarters for the main engineering team to be somewhere pretty close to main engineering. For the quartermaster to have his quarters near the cargo facilities. For the shuttle pilots to have their quarters near the shuttlebay. While you'd want the medical personnel to be quartered near sickbay (in the primary hull) and so on. In case of an emergency, you don't want crew to have to migrate from one end of the ship to the other in order to respond, do you?
So there SHOULD be quarters in the secondary hull. But probably (in the case of an "explorer-refit" Constitution-class) not as many as there would be in the primary hull.
And FJ was entirely correct, and SMART, about insisting on having some billeting in the secondary hull, in case they needed to separate the ship and use either portion to support the entire crew temporarily. They might end up eight-to-a-single-cabin, but they'd be able to survive.
Very good comparison.
Reads as a good rationale for a second - third or fifth? - look at the 1701-A, then...
I wasn't suggesting that everybody would be lounging during an emergency. However once the ship separates, you would ideally have everybody in the saucer. And once the emergency is abated as the saucer continues to cruise around you would need to have enough room for everybody to sleep!
Why are you stuck on this one point (over and over and over again)?
Frankly, I wouldn't consider supporting the standard crew of 430 people in the saucer a real emergency from a habitation point of view... it would most likely be more like an inconvenience (as all cabins are really doubles, and therefore the saucer should be able to house up to 526 people at two to a cabin). But for the most part (while waiting for retrieval) life would go on like normal (the type of thing that the crew would have been doing in the 3 to 4 months the Enterprise was stranded in Amerind's system during "The Paradise Syndrome").
A real emergency would be to support more than the normal crew... and the saucer alone should be able to support 1500 people (at about six persons to a cabin) for a short period (up to a month).
FYI... this is the last response on crew accommodations I'll be giving you. The subject has been beaten to death, and if you can't grasp this at this point, there is nothing in the world I (or anyone else it would seem) can add that will help you.
Edit: Lets take this a step further... the Enterprise is a closed system while in space, nothing lost and nothing gained. The average crew person is allotted 100 kg (220 lb.) of recyclable material (a form of cellulose and water).
What is this used for?
Beyond the obvious (food and fluids), it is also the material that their uniforms and bedding are made out of. Granted, most of that material would sit in storage as the average person wouldn't need that much of their allotment at any one time. The idea is that it takes energy to transition this stuff and the faster the ship's recycling systems has to generate this stuff, the more resources that system would require.
But above I was talking about an emergency where the ship might need to evacuate 1000 people. In that case, everyone would have to start rationing, with their allotment cut to about 16.7 kg (or about 35 lb.) of material. People who might be keeping spare uniforms in their drawers or extra bedding would be asked to turn in those items, and water usage would have to be managed as well.
What wouldn't count for this? Anything not originally made of that material (like civilian clothing and the like).
For the most part, the recycling system is non-centralized... every compartment has the ability to provide for more than it's standard compliment if needed. Some areas have more extensive facilities than others... such as the ships stores which can make non-standard clothing (or books or other items). Conversion of this material into something that is not recyclable is frowned upon.
Unfortunately, the existence of VIP cabins is negated on screen by "Elaan of Troyius," where Uhura gives up her cabin for the Dolman. If there are VIP cabins, then surely she would've gotten one.
Then again in "Journal to Babel," Sarek and Amanda are in the standard officer's quarters.
There is a way around it, of course; perhaps the VIP cabins are interchangeable modules that, depending on the mission profile at the time, can be swapped out for science and research modules. So in EoT, the VIP cabins aren't available having been switched out for some other mission. Or some such rational.
Not really... remember that people were going out of their way to try to make Elaan happy. If she didn't want a window, that means she wouldn't have wanted any of the VIP cabins, including the ones on deck 2 (one of which was originally Captain Pike's). Recall that in "The Enterprise Incident" they put the Romulan Commander on deck 2. Plus "Journey to Babel" included tons of dignitaries (far more than there are VIP cabins) and Vulcans would not have pushed for one of those cabins.
More importantly, the logic that I'm using on these plans (when comparing to what we saw on screen) doesn't follow a not seen, not there pattern. Your example of "Elaan of Troyius" makes this type of argument:If guest star alpha didn't have coffee for breakfast on the Enterprise, and we never saw anyone else have coffee with breakfast, then the Enterprise doesn't provide coffee with breakfast.There are plenty of other possibilities (like guest star alpha not liking coffee) other than the complete negation of coffee for all persons for breakfast on the Enterprise.
Besides, I don't believe that the VIP cabins are kept in a constant state of preparedness. In "The Enterprise Incident", Spock and the Romulan Commander spend quite a bit of time in the turbo lift making their way to deck 2. Either the cabin was being made up or a guard was being summoned (most likely the latter though).
Spock could've also been taking the scenic route, to not give the Commander any more of a clue of the Enterprise's layout than she might've already had.
As far as designated VIP quarters, I don't see the Enterprise having more than three or four cabins set aside for that purprose, for the occasional visiting admiral or commodore (if Decker hadn't decided to go kamikaze, he probably would've been put up on one of those). Who got those quarters in "Journey to Babel", that matter alone probably took six months of negotiations.
As for "Elaan of Troyius", I doubt Ambassador Petri had any problems taking one of the VIP cabins.
Well, suppose that there's only one "Ambassadorial VIP Suite?" And that's where the Troians are staying. I do recall that the Elaasans and the Troians weren't in the same part of the ship... probably by choice.
I can easily imagine the scene... "I will not have my quarters near those animals!"
Granted, a stretch, but not entirely unreasonable. Heck, there may even have been empty cabins throughout the ship able to be used, but perhaps she DEMANDED that he displace one of his senior staff... just to be the bitch that she was so proud of being.
Yeah, I figure more along these lines. I've always speculated that it was considered more polite to these particular cultures to displace oneself for the dignitary and therefore, Uhura gave up her quarters in the spirit of etiquette and protocol. There were plenty of quarters available (witness "Journey to Babel") but in order to satisfy the cultural specifications of the Dohlman's planet, one of the Crew had better defer.
Very cool! I had thought of doing something like this myself some years ago.
I would suggest that you alter your "Copyright 2008 Lawrence D. Miller" statement to mention Franz Joseph's authorship of the drawings, and Paramount's ownership of the copyright to said drawings. Neither FJ nor Paramount are mentioned explicitly anywhere in relation to this tool.
Tallguy brought up an interesting point in another forum... the ramp at the rear of the trench of the warp nacelle doesn't have an obvious geometry based on either the plans or images of the actual model. I hadn't spent much time on this area, but realized that he had a very good point. The best solution I can think of is to attempt to recreate that section of the nacelle as a physical model to see what is actually happening there.
Hopefully I'll have some time over the next few days to attempt this study. I've decided on half scale, which should be large enough to recreate the conditions of the original model while also not being too big a pain to build.
The study model is going to be about 4 to 5 inches long and 3 inches in diameter. There will be four sectional supports, two full circles and two with the proper trench cut out, all made of foam-core board. The outer surface will be made of poster board with the joining seam aligned with the center of the trench (just as on the model). The foundation of the trench will also be poster board, a single sheet with bent edges to match the shape of the trench, and it'll extend beyond the two forward supports (with the cut out) all the way to the first one without a cut out(with this piece supplying additional support for the surface as it passes underneath). The surface itself will be cut to match what we see on the model as the boundary of the trench.
The last piece... the ramp, will be fitted as best as possible to the previously assembled pieces. It will not be pre-cut to a given shape, but adjusted as needed to fit the opening in the study model.
Here are the plans I'll be using to create the parts I need for the study.
Click to enlarge
Secondary hull of the Enterprise, or marital aid instruction sheet? You be the judge!
Separate names with a comma.